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Author
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Topic: Should players be allowed to build cities on Mountain hexes? Current Date/Time:
May 05, 2000 09:45:48
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Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 09, 2000 05:40
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I think this is ridiculous, especially in multiplayer games.
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Founder of the People's Republic of Off Topic (PROT) |
SlowHand
Warlord
Dallas, Texas Central U.S. time -6
Jan 2000
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posted March 09, 2000 07:07
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You think building on a mountain is ridiculous, A.H.? How so? Why would it not be allowed? Actually surprised to see this from you. |
Tom DeMille
Warlord
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Jan 2000
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posted March 09, 2000 07:59
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I would like to think of mountain settlements as being akin to crusader castles being built in very rugged terrain (Krak de Chevalier springs to mind). This still doesn't stop an enemy from pillaging the surrounding land, however. |
Ming
ACS CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Mingapulco (CST)
b.02-15-99
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posted March 09, 2000 08:04
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Just deal with it. Building cities on mountains at key choke points is just solid defensive planning. |
DaveV
Prince
USA - EDT
b.02-15-99
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posted March 09, 2000 11:38
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I would rather see my opponent build a city on a mountain than a fort, since the city can be taken out by bribery. You don't have that option with a pair of units. |
War4ever
Settler
b.02-15-99
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posted March 09, 2000 16:07
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Although mountains are almost impossible to siege early in the game...... a nuke will work just fine. Mountains are just a part of the game  go around if you dont' want to war |
Smash
King
Vancouver Canada PST
Jul 1999
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posted March 09, 2000 16:28
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If you don't like seeing cities on mountains,hills and forests then play 1x production.These cities are not nearly as viable on 1x |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 09, 2000 16:32
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My point is its not realistic or sporting.
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Founder of the People's Republic of Off Topic (PROT) |
Seeker
King
Canada(UWO)
b.02-15-99
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posted March 09, 2000 16:40
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It's very realistic...Gibraltar, Lhasa (the Potala), the fortress-cities of Central Asia.. |
KhanMan
Prince
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
b.02-15-99
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posted March 09, 2000 16:49
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It's very realistic: look at all the fortresses in Greece and Asia Minor, and all the trouble people went to to laying seige to them...If you want to take a mountain city, by all means, use bribery. Or, if you'd rather, fortify a whole bunch of units around their city, doing nothing else, and they'll starve out. Whining about people building well defended cities is on par with complaining about the existance of city walls, or phalanxs, for that matter. If you can't take a city, beseig it and take the surrounding lands... "Sic semper pax mundis"
-KhanMan |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 09, 2000 17:31
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I'm not whining about it, I'm sayings its wrong, almost a form of cheating in multiplayer games. Single player games, I don't care. And look at the examples - LHasa, Gibraltar, wow!
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Founder of the People's Republic of Off Topic (PROT) |
Paul Hanson
Prince
of the Immense Fortress of Solitude (Scawby)
Aug 1999
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posted March 09, 2000 17:51
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Just stop whining about it. Like people have said, it`s possible to get rid of such a city (albeit late in the game, with more powerful weapons). Look at the facts:A)It`s clever tactical planning.
B)No-one`s stopping you from using the same tactics.
C)How would you enforce such a rule?
D)Stopping people from building on mountains is like asking them to surrender without force. You might as well ban the building of military units altogether.
E)It is realistic...one of the main rules of military planning is to take control of the high ground if at all possible.
F)It is sporting...no-one`s forcing you to attack such a city. You could get rid off everything else and force them to give up. ------------------
D`oh!
Homer Simpson
Choppa
Briton Villager, AOE II |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 09, 2000 18:10
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yep, all the city/mountain builders are coming out. I say sure, build on hills, build on forests and rivers, but build on mountains? Get real!!!!
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Founder of the People's Republic of Off Topic (PROT) |
Paul Hanson
Prince
of the Immense Fortress of Solitude (Scawby)
Aug 1999
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posted March 09, 2000 18:18
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Why shouldn`t people build on mountains? Give us a list of good reasons why not, and then we might start listening to you.And the reason that all the city/mountain buildes are coming out is because the people that don`t do this sort of thing are perfectly content to let others do it. |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 09, 2000 18:34
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1. Cities are not built on mountains.2. See point 1. Lhasa for example is not built on a mountain, it is built in a mountain valley (like most so-called mountain cities). Gibraltar is a town not a city. Sorry but I find it hard to justify the bleeeding obvious. I am not opposed to building forts on mountains. |
Glohithia
Chieftain
Folsom(Nice Prison)CA PST
Apr 99
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posted March 09, 2000 18:42
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Just because a game square is represented as a mountain on the map does not mean that every inch of represented territory is mountainous. It means the majority of area in that representative square is mountainous.
Therefore, building a city on a mountain square seems totally reasonable to me, as it would include such things as valleys. If we are tying to be reasonable, very few single squares, and all the land they represent, could ever be comprised one single land feature, with the possible exception of ocean squares.
[This message has been edited by Glohithia (edited March 09, 2000).] |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 09, 2000 19:26
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Damn, noone is taking my side 
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Founder of the People's Republic of Off Topic (PROT) |
Sten Sture
King
San Fran-CISCO
Mar 99
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posted March 09, 2000 20:13
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Players shouldn't build cities on mountains
At least not all of their first four cities in single production 'cause they will be hungry and that isn't nice to the little computer people...
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SlowHand
Warlord
Dallas, Texas Central U.S. time -6
Jan 2000
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posted March 10, 2000 00:21
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Guam is a rock. |
SlowHand
Warlord
Dallas, Texas Central U.S. time -6
Jan 2000
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posted March 10, 2000 00:24
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It's a hard argument to grasp, A.H.
Really, you think their are no mountain cities in the world? Heard of skiing?
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Smash
King
Vancouver Canada PST
Jul 1999
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posted March 10, 2000 00:48
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Herod's Masada also comes to mind.A fortress city.Sounds like someone lost a small army against one of thses recently  |
KhanMan
Prince
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 2000 01:28
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I just find it really hard to believe that you want to force other people, specifically, the whole civ2 mp community, to ignore mountain squares as city sites.You said that there aren't any cities built on mountains, yet, in the same sentence, you say that Gibraltar was a town, not a city. So there have been small cities built on mountains, but you will only allow us to build on mountains if we can name a metropolis that was? Okay, smart guy, if ya wanna get technical, the entire chain of Hawaiian islands is a mountain, when measured from it's undersea base. Thus, Honolulu is technically a city built on a mountain. Do you really want to keep pushing this point on us? -KM |
KhanMan
Prince
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 2000 01:31
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Furthermore, if you want to take the idea that your view of history should dictate what civ2 mp players can and cannot do, then why not say that no person playing the Romans can successfully fend off a player playing the Germans? Or make a house rule that, from now on, the Mongols cannot build any ships. Or better yet, why not say that each civ is forever restricted to one government, and start whinying when they switch governments... Or say that the Egyptians are the only ones who can build the Pyramids... :P -KM |
iadkins
Prince
Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 99
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posted March 10, 2000 05:02
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AHorse - you got rocks in ya head mate!------------------
*THE DEITY*
#8388924 |
iadkins
Prince
Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 99
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posted March 10, 2000 05:06
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AHorse - you got rocks in ya head mate!
It is a lovely little strategic decision to build a horse on a mountain... you miserable little turd LOL
I'm gonna get you.... Watch out ------------------
*THE DEITY*
#8388924 |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 10, 2000 19:54
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Oh yeah, kick a horse when he's down why don't ya. Gang up on me too. Typical civ player mentality! I still think its stupid!------------------
huFWEYFLWS sdbcSIB;BIU,N wnbuUHEW;hnb hFFPfpi IUHPISufhhufWPEIUFHPUH DPIhhf[ FSIUEWIFPI n2f879hfgb hw8098gf-98hj *(G-9-8h wpfg3q-[9h4-hfe [0eqridkji]kEW ;J[VENSDQK eijfqeioeiqgr ajvnq[oa'fdiveqioijifvbjw 087ef0q vswvb[qj9 fs9igbw9qwui 09jvbqe99jv09q9 vjawndggqw'[i |
Seeker
King
Canada(UWO)
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 2000 20:30
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Howabout YOU start not doing it, and then see if you start a trend...
Besides, it's not something I see a lot of. Maybe one or two at chokepoints.Go around. Forget about them. |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 11, 2000 06:28
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I never build cities on mountains. What's the point? It's ridiculous and I have greater confidence in my army than some.------------------
huFWEYFLWS sdbcSIB;BIU,N wnbuUHEW;hnb hFFPfpi IUHPISufhhufWPEIUFHPUH DPIhhf[ FSIUEWIFPI n2f879hfgb hw8098gf-98hj *(G-9-8h wpfg3q-[9h4-hfe [0eqridkji]kEW ;J[VENSDQK eijfqeioeiqgr ajvnq[oa'fdiveqioijifvbjw 087ef0q vswvb[qj9 fs9igbw9qwui 09jvbqe99jv09q9 vjawndggqw'[i |
kcbob
Chieftain
Kansas City, MO USA
Dec 1999
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posted March 11, 2000 11:08
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I will build a city on a mountain when it looks like a good spot for defensive purposes. BUT, there had better be some "special" squares nearby or the food/production output is doomed. Having said that, I'm surprised no one mentioned Machu Pichu as a city on a mountain. That is THE best example of all time. And it did flourish for centuries, n'est-ce pas? ------------------
Frodo lives! Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.
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MasterBob
King
The Glorius Kindom of Bob
Aug 1999
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posted March 11, 2000 11:45
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No building cities on mountains is pointless, you build forts on mountains and stack Alpines up there.------------------
Webmaster---Come to the Civworld Forums "If you cannot beat them, don't join them, instead corrupt them, make them join you, then throw them off a cliff."
"Those who achieve greatness have backstab to achieve it." |
SlowHand
Warlord
Dallas, Texas Central U.S. time -6
Jan 2000
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posted March 11, 2000 11:53
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Building on a mountain with a good special near is great.
Last night I built a city on a mountain with access to 3 whales! I split useage after a point, but that was a powerful city. |
Imran Siddiqui
Emperor
Heaven, aka New Jersey
b.02-15-99
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posted March 11, 2000 12:36
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Yeah, AH, you're just wrong! Cities on mountains are very smart strategy. |
SandMonkey
Warlord
Yardley, Pennsylvania, US
Apr 99
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posted March 11, 2000 13:10
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(i hope no one else said this, but....) isn't Denver up in the mountains?? |
Mao
Emperor
Apolyton
Jun 99
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posted March 11, 2000 13:58
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Isn't Buchephalus in the mountains too? |
myrlyn
ACS Civ2 DB Helper
glasford,il usa
Jan 2000
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posted March 11, 2000 14:58
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Naw the whole Denver area is on the east slope of the rockies. Not much of anything up near the peaks.Didnt the Peublo Indians build thier cities right into the sides of mountains?? "Here i am standing pretty, in this dust that was a city. "
Nena |
KhanMan
Prince
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
b.02-15-99
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posted March 11, 2000 15:20
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Yep.Ever been to Mesa Verde? Those Cliff-dwellings are actually harder to take than the average mountain, because they have sheer cliff faces below, and cave outcroppings above. You either have to scale the really rough terrain leading up to it (avalanche, anyone or repell down the cliff face from above... -KhanMan "Falling rocks over head-thus the superior man finds shelter fast, and decides to leave mountain-strongholds be..." |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 12, 2000 06:59
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As far as I am concerned, anyone who builds cities on mountains is a wimp and a cheat - in the sense of acting against the spirit of the game.Noone has yet named a major city built on a mountain. Those named are all towns. Who are kidding?
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huFWEYFLWS sdbcSIB;BIU,N wnbuUHEW;hnb hFFPfpi IUHPISufhhufWPEIUFHPUH DPIhhf[ FSIUEWIFPI n2f879hfgb hw8098gf-98hj *(G-9-8h wpfg3q-[9h4-hfe [0eqridkji]kEW ;J[VENSDQK eijfqeioeiqgr ajvnq[oa'fdiveqioijifvbjw 087ef0q vswvb[qj9 fs9igbw9qwui 09jvbqe99jv09q9 vjawndggqw'[i |
myrlyn
ACS Civ2 DB Helper
glasford,il usa
Jan 2000
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posted March 12, 2000 08:05
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Then it is simple then Alexander. If you are
playing someone that builds a city on a
mountain QUIT.
Since this gets your goat so bad i imagine
people will do it do you on purpose.Now how many people does a settlement need to go from town to city? I grew up in a town that
has over 30,000 in population and it is called a town.
I live in the city of Glasford, IL which has
barely 600 people I work out of the village
of Elk Grove, IL which has has over 100,000
in population.
Im sure if you want to do the research you could find many examples of settlements with populations over 50,000 people in theses mountain ranges.
Andes,Carpathians,Rockies,Pyrenees,aw heck with it do the research yourself
bye for now "The war machine springs to life, opens up
one eager eye"
Nena |
My Wife Hates CIV
Emperor
b.02-15-99
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posted March 12, 2000 12:04
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What difference does it make? Your not taking out a city on a hill by force thats well defended. Mountains, to me, are just overkill in terms of defense. A hill city with coastal fortress and SAM can defend against anything. Even marines will sink battleship after battleship. Armor will do no good. Maybe if a dip or spy can take the walls down. |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 12, 2000 17:31
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MWHC is right, its overkill, so nerdy and defensive, as well as being unrealistic.
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Emperor10
Chieftain
Jul 1999
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posted March 12, 2000 18:19
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Well being a Civer, I'd never attack another Civilization when they're down(Yeah, Right) Sorry AH, gotta say that the idea that city building somehow cheating is silly...mountains make great defensive choke points, among other things.
[This message has been edited by Emperor10 (edited March 12, 2000).] |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 12, 2000 19:38
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Some of my multiplayer "friends", especially the mountain builders, are really enjoying watching me get bashed up on this thread Not a single supporter, YOU sheep! ------------------
Founder of the People's Republic of Topics (PROT) Convenor of the Threadjacking Appreciation Society (TAS) |
KhanMan
Prince
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
b.02-15-99
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posted March 12, 2000 21:17
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If you don't want to get beaten up in threads like these, don't post undefendable accusations. You said that the only reasons you have for calling this a cheat are:1. all real world mountain cities are villages, or not "real mountains" Specify the exact elivation and populations necessary to make a city a "real city in real mountains", and I *will* find a city that fits your nit-picking qualifications. 2. this gives a defender an unfair advantage. To which I join everyone else in replying that one dip or nuke can take down nearly any city, regardless of where it is!
Of course, I don't think I'm the only one who's surprized to see you whining again about an unsupportable claim...Anyone remember the thread where Horsebrains here said civ2 is full of satanic messages?
Here it is, if you've forgotten:
../../Forum1/HTML/000977.html?date=19:58 "Small men with small brains deserve to be beaten"
-KhanMan |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 12, 2000 21:37
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Khanman LOL, I appreciate that playing a game in the spirit in which it was intended is a concept alien to most Americans. The virtue of not kicking someone when they are down also seems to escape most Americans too If I didn't have a point, you would not be replying. I think you do protest too much (sorry, another difficult abstract concept).
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Founder of the People's Republic of Topics (PROT) Convenor of the Threadjacking Appreciation Society (TAS) |
iadkins
Prince
Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 99
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posted March 12, 2000 23:20
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Don't forget that the squares in civ are symbolic of the pre-dominant terrain in that area.
I think choke points and taking advantage of them by using the available terain adds an interest to the game.
I took out a reasonably well defended mountain city once by landing an engineer nearby, building a city, linked it to the mtn city by rail, docked the transport full of vet howies in my new city and pumped them into the mtn city
All in one turn of course!!------------------
*THE DEITY*
#8388924 |
iadkins
Prince
Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 99
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posted March 12, 2000 23:27
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What I meant to say is that I thoroughly enjoyed this challenge.But then, AHorse, you like it easy don't you?
You'd rather stab winners in the back rather than win on your own
LOL
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*THE DEITY*
#8388924 |
Alexander's Horse
Emperor
of speeding horse float streaming shit and piss.
May 99
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posted March 12, 2000 23:47
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Deity, you are SUCH a mug lair Build forts on mountains people, most of the so-called cities were forts!!! I have no objection to that ------------------
Founder of the People's Republic of Topics (PROT) Convenor of the Threadjacking Appreciation Society (new members welcome) |
myrlyn
ACS Civ2 DB Helper
glasford,il usa
Jan 2000
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posted March 13, 2000 01:11
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Alexander,
So far i have found 13 settlements of populations over 50,000 that have mountain peaks within thier city limits and are over 5,000 feet in elevation.
Do these meet your requirements?
Also i have found 2 settlements of over 50,000 in population with mountain peaks within thier city limits and are 0ver 10,000
feet in elevation.
Would this meet your requirements?
The information is redily available on the net or at your local library. Do some research if ya dont mind.
bye for now
Myrlyn
founder of the build cities on mountains society
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WesW
Prince
Florence, Al., USA
b.02-15-99
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posted March 13, 2000 02:13
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Just passing through to see what is happening with civ 2 these days.I find it very amusing to see Horse taking it on the chin, after the things he has said in the past about CtP. It appears that people here don't think much of Horse's opinions either. |
KhanMan
Prince
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
b.02-15-99
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posted March 13, 2000 02:32
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AH-LOL!You think a lil' crack about Americans is going to rile me? :P By the way, you forgot to list what exactly constitutes a "city" in the "mountains". Put up your qualifications, big guy! Wes-Yeah, he does tend to get creamed royally when he starts a' whinin'...
-KhanMan
"Sic semper pax mundis" |
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