posted May 03, 2001 07:25

:-)

	posted May 03, 2001 10:13

quote: Comment by Sirotnikov Having an option for both windowed and full screen would be awfully nice. However I don't tihnk they're gonna change it now.

It has been said that they are using a temporary SMAC engine with Civ 3 graphics and rules. As they have animated high resolution units they will probably have a totally new engine for the game. That means that the current view may change drastically.

And an option is always good as long as it works.

	posted May 03, 2001 12:02

Please, please WINDOWED MODE

	posted May 03, 2001 15:26

Even the SP players gain from a windowed version. I know when I play in SP mode, I'm still checking out other things while I play.

	posted May 03, 2001 17:37

Windowed mode is a must. Civ3 requires long hours of play time. Thus the option to have ICQ open and easily available at the same time will alleviate the toll that megagames like this take on your social life. Granted ICQ isn't exactly replacment for face to face contact but do you really want to be cut off from all communication for 12 hour blocks?

	posted May 03, 2001 17:53

I also fully agree with roman that we need more than 7 civs!!!

	posted May 03, 2001 18:24

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- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"

	posted May 03, 2001 19:28

-Shooter

	posted May 04, 2001 08:01

quote: Originally posted by boann on 05-03-2001 12:13 PM i won't be buying it if its not in windowed form.

heh I don't believe you :P

I think Civ 3 just should have the ability to be windowed or to be full screen. Everybody happy

	posted May 04, 2001 11:49

quote: Originally posted by ancient on 05-03-2001 09:27 PM or you could just press Tab and Alt.. duh.. umm does it really make ythat much of a difference?

This has a slight tendency to crash/freeze programs, Alt-tab is basically to minimizing as force-quitting is to closing a window. In addition, Alt-tab does not enable you to resize a window.

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- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"

	posted May 04, 2001 13:16

Everyone write them an e-mail, make them thoughtful and explain why you don't like full screen. Explain why you want more than 7 players. Do it and do it now. Sooner we get it in, the less likely it'll be set in stone already. A massive response to anything will certainly change their minds, now folks its time to e-mail like mad!!!

	posted May 04, 2001 18:31

Couldn't do that with CTP

	posted May 04, 2001 18:49

Windowed mode is also better for scenario building: start the game, make changes in the text files or the graphics, reload and see how it works, then repeat until it is perfect...ok, that worked great with Civ2, don´t know if it is the same with Civ3 - but it should be.

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Civ2000 hosted by CivII Universum

	posted May 05, 2001 07:59

Is DirectX incompatible with Windows-mode? I didnt thought of that, then I voted YES.
Perhaps they loose out to much by excluding DirectX? What do you think? I prioritize a smooth and fluid game-experience first and foremost. And razorsharp colourful graphics with fluid animations. IF they must have DirectX for that, and IF DirectX is incompatible with Windows-mode. Well, then i rather go for fullscreen I think.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 05, 2001).]

	posted May 05, 2001 08:57

quote: And I'd be dissapointed if the Scenario Editor was in-game...

Hm, I don´t care about if it´s in-game or not, only its quality counts for me.

Test of Time was in windowed mode - didn´t it run with directX? I have no idea about it. Perhaps one of the computer experts here can explain us that, and if directX and windowed mode cannot be work together?

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Civ2000 hosted by CivII Universum

	posted May 05, 2001 09:31

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 05-05-2001 08:57 AM Test of Time was in windowed mode - didn´t it run with directX?

I actually re-installed the "Ultimate Civilization II classic collection" 15 minutes ago (definitly Windows-mode), and the setup-program asked me if I also wanted to install required DirectX version 5 as well. Since I already had version 8 installed, I choosed not to.

Anyway, I guess that answers the question. Windows-mode is apparently NOT incompatible with the DirectX technology. Good news!

	posted May 05, 2001 11:15

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 05-05-2001 09:31 AM I actually re-installed the "Ultimate Civilization II classic collection" 15 minutes ago (definitly Windows-mode), and the setup-program asked me if I also wanted to install required DirectX version 5 as well. Since I already had version 8 installed, I choosed not to. Anyway, I guess that answers the question. Windows-mode is apparently NOT incompatible with the DirectX technology. Good news!

Umm, by your own words Ralf, you indicate that windows IS compatible with DirectX...

quote: ..."Ultimate Civilization II Classic Collection" is definately windows-mode, and setup asked me if I also wanted to install REQUIRED DirectX as well...

This indicates to me that the windows program is compatible with DirectX technology.

Am I right, or am I just being a little thick here?

[This message has been edited by Wittlich (edited May 05, 2001).]

	posted May 05, 2001 11:32

quote: This indicates to me that the windows program is compatible with DirectX technology.

Ahem...I think that is exactly what Ralf wanted to say...

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Civ2000 hosted by CivII Universum

	posted May 05, 2001 11:51

I thought so, I just wanted to make sure I was on the same sheet of music here.

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After all is said and done, usually more is said than done.

	posted May 05, 2001 13:34

Alt-Tab works just fine. I'd suggest that they drop the 256 color thing though, since Alt-Tabbing from within a DX game doesn't switch color depths very well most of the time. Oh, yeah, and because 256 colors are just pathetic.

	posted May 05, 2001 14:32

quote: Originally posted by Bell on 05-05-2001 01:34 PM In general, DX performs much worse in windowed mode than in full screen. It will work...it'll just work slowly.

I guess it all comes down how different the game actually performs comparing Window-mode with fullscreen. If Firaxis really dont think they can make the game run slick, efficient and non-sluggish in windows-mode - also on a relatively modest P3-500Mhz machine - then perhaps fullscreen is the best way to go. I certainly keep my fingers crossed for Windows-mode, but if push comes to shove...

quote: In addition to that, there's the technical problem that, if you allow your window to be resized, you have to build an interface that can be easily resized with it and still be functional. This isn't as easy as it sounds, especially if you want to keep it looking nice.

Hmmm! Well, that IS something to think about. Perhaps all these added potential problems just isnt worth the trouble after all...

quote: Alt-Tab works just fine. I'd suggest that they drop the 256 color thing though, since Alt-Tabbing from within a DX game doesn't switch color depths very well most of the time.

256 colors only? From there have you got that piece of information? I thought that (at least) 16-bit was pretty much standard these days.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited May 05, 2001).]

	posted May 05, 2001 14:41

quote: Originally posted by markusf on 05-05-2001 02:36 PM Since when? All you do is set a flag when using direct x that says full screen or windowed mode. Although some 3dfx cards don't like it(like 5%), thats the only problem.

Forgive us our ignorance. I/we didnt know it was that easy.

	posted May 05, 2001 15:33

quote: Its not Starcraft or total anhilation. Where you can have over 600 units moving at the same time with massive explosions etc etc. We will move moving 1!!!! unit at a time.

Good point. Yes, that is definately an advantage against RTS games.

And ToT was in 16bit Color, 256 colors would be a step back (but I think it can look still fine, AoK had also 256 colors and was nice)...

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Civ2000 hosted by CivII Universum

	posted May 05, 2001 17:37

quote: Originally posted by markusf on 05-05-2001 02:41 PM Also whats all this BS about speed? Its civ for crying out loud. Its not Starcraft or total anhilation. Where you can have over 600 units moving at the same time with massive explosions etc etc. We will move moving 1!!!! unit at a time. Now unless your an absolutly horrible programer there is no way you should see a speed difference between fullscreen mode and windowed. in a game like starcraft i could see the possibility.(massive armies etc moving at the same time and talking over tcp/ip) but not civ!

Depends on how the graphics engine is written...remember SMAC? SMAC (also, this is where the reference to 256 colors came from, SMAC ran at 8 bit color. I haven't seen anything at all about the color depth in CivIII) had horrible video performance, even if there is only one unit moving at a time. I had assumed that the AI was where the problem was, but there's an appreciable difference running SMAC on different video cards. That's why they went to the low-res units. Remember, CivIII is coming from Firaxis, and Firaxis didn't do CivII or it's clones/add ons. Firaxis did SMAC, and SMAC's graphics engine quite frankly sucked.

	posted May 06, 2001 04:21

When Civ3 comes out, I will still be working on this dissertation, will feel the need to whine about stuff on Apolyton (not to mention raz everyone opposed to civ specific units if they turn out well), and will play Civ3 all night every night (need more coffee). Please window it!