quote: Originally posted by raingoon on 04-10-2001 09:33 PM the NEW PW vs. Settle poll is PERFECT!

perhaps in the future i should get your advice in case i subconsciously put subconscious pressure to people who vote...

PS try not to drown in the sarcasm

1) Divorce rates increase to 100% of all marriages, due to husbands and wives who are complaining, "You spend more time micromanaging those Workers in that worthless game than with me!"

2) The FBI might get suspicious of thousands of players micromanaging Workers, as they may investigate to assure themselves that we're not sending out orders to actual militia extremists.

3) More babies will die of malnutrition as mothers and fathers become obsessed with micromanaging dozens of Workers to improve tiles.

4) The federal government may want to implement the "don't ask, don't tell" policy on these Workers for this software game. They would not want openly gay Workers represented in Civilization III.

First, the greatest cost in creating a road is NOT population, rather money. The materials and the machines to build the roads are the costly things. As for having my road-working population "stolen" from me -- HA -- let them have them because generally the population that I would have working on the roads in my empire are criminals (properly supervised of course )!

The Settler/worker system has the hassles of micromanaging the workers, and the problems of putting them in auto-mode, but allows you the privilage of building your civ exactly how you want it. Most, if not all people in favor of the settler/worker system are OK with dealing with the micromanagement problems, and there are many ideas as to how to improove the auto-mode of workers including a build-queue for the workers, blueprints of your future civ, and more options for the AI to follow for workers in auto-mode.

Y‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡X
# (click+SHIFT on X hold shift and drag to Y then release)
#
#
#
Z

and if you want to make a turn, after you release key/button when you reach Y, the unit would stay selected, then you could click+SHIFT on Y and drag to Z, and so on. you would double click the last point you want the unit to stop at to signify the end of the worker's turn. so in this case you would double click Z to end the unit's turn.

while this would only allow you to build one improvement at a time (i.e. only road, or only irrigation, etc.) it would still cut down on micromanagemnt WITHOUT having to waste time on stupid build cues.

quote: Originally posted by raingoon on 04-10-2001 06:20 PM Put it another way, would the poll have been different if instead you had asked CTP's Public Works, bad? We'll never know. But let's just say your position on PW was hinted at in the way you phrased the question.

HMMnnn...
let's see, what would be skewed the other way?

POLL # BLEEP
PUBLIC WORKS. BAD?

Yes.

Yes, but is useful sometimes.

"I want my settlers back!"

No.

Not Sure.

quote: however, what i have always thought should be implimented was the SHIFT-clickNdrag concept [This message has been edited by Nemo (edited April 12, 2001).]

Here is what I would like.

1. right click (slect queue)

Repeat 2 and 3 as many times as you would like
2. enter single key f,m,i,r (normal acceleration keys)
3. left click on desired square you want improved(added entry to queue)goto 2

quote: quote: however, what i have always thought should be implimented was the SHIFT-clickNdrag concept [This message has been edited by Nemo (edited April 12, 2001).] Isn't this a queue?

i guess technically it is, you might be right. but when i think of a queue, i was thinking more of how the queue was implemented in CTP with the city build queue, and the input list, build list, insert buttons and all that unfriendly interface type of jaz.

In COLONIZATION there is this possibility to automate the tranport of resources and tradegoods by wagontrails. Each term you can see these wagontrailunits you've build and programmed by yourself riding around out of themselves from one place to another. A bit like the camel in CIV-I&II, but also significantly different and more sofisticated.
The transportprogram, a kind of a small game"macro"program, takes away a lot of micromanagement.
When you open this program a matrix appears on your screen. You'll have to fill in the next things, from left to right in a line:

1. choose the city, from a rolldownlist, from where goods are to be taken away
   
2. choose the kind of goods (iron ore, timber, cotton, weapons etc.) from a rolldownlist,
   
3. choose the city, from a rolldownlist, where goods are to be brought
   
4. choose the kind of goods from a rolldownlist, which are to be left in this city
   

I can see something similar for the "programming" of workers or settlers, and, why not, other units. A list of things to be done for a unit could look like: "Go to xx" (and you would just have to point that out with your mouse(like in CTP, I love that feature !!)) "Then fortify, pillage, stack with, build road/irrigation/fort, etc." (from a rolldownlist of functions).

If "tileproccessing"units don't get that automatated functioning I choose for the Public Works like I know it from CTP. After having used this feature in CTP I was really fed up with having to do all the micromanagement in CIV-II.

quote: Originally posted by Nemo on 04-12-2001 11:20 AM so i guess i should say: i dont want a list queue, but i want to be able to command my unit build more than one piece of road,irrigation, etc. in one turn, even if that is a queue. [This message has been edited by Nemo (edited April 12, 2001).]

That is exactly how I think too.

So,
CIV III cost without worker quere $39.50 + carpel tunnel syndrome
CIV III cost with worker queue $50.00 and goes gold.

all units and cities dissappear (options to leave on?)

all terrain imps that have been queued by previous workers appear as a translucent overlay (so you can still see what's behind them)
the current worker's queue is transparent over that (so that it can be seen over everything else, but still see behind it)

you move the cursor to the position as if moving the worker and hit the keys to improove the land (which will appear translucently over everything else)

if you want to dequeue something, you go to the tile and hit 'u' for undo, and a pop up list appears with the improovments that can be dequeued.

you hit the spacebar or enter when done to activate it, or escape to cancel.

quote: Originally posted by jglidewell on 04-12-2001 11:30 AM So, CIV III cost without worker quere $39.50 + carpel tunnel syndrome CIV III cost with worker queue $50.00 and goes gold.

I've never heard of carpal tunnel from using one-finger, giving commands ain't exactly typing.

I do like the Idea of using two pop to build a settler/engineer, but I'm not sure of the Public Works concept. If they have a seperate unit for building from the settler, I'd still like to see the settler still be able to build something, at 1/3 of the worker rate though. This will still allow some faster improvement thoughput while my Civ is in it's early stages.

quote: Originally posted by Cannes on 04-13-2001 12:33 PM I don't understand why some of you take an almost fanatic stance in the keeping everything like it was in civII. CivIII will be a new game build on the same concept of CivII. Expect changes! If you are so fanatic about keeping everything as it was in CivII Then why develop CivIII at all? What if Sid Meyer desides that he likes the idea of public works over settler/engineers/terraformers/whatever. What are you fanatics going to do? Lynch him? For prostituting himself with activision concepts? I personally prefer public works because it's easier to manage, it's more realistic and more intuitive. If you want to keep settlers/etc. then come up with some arguments why you think they work better instead of grabbing a torch and a coil of rope, screaming: "we want everything as it used to be!"

I'm not that much of a fanactic about workers VS PW, but there is one restriction that PW gives that workers solve.

IF there is no unit on the board then PW must have a restriction on where you can do inprovements. Say there are no retrictions, than I could place a fortification right next to my enemies city and attack from there. PW does have some restrictions which is how it was used in CTP.