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Topic: Unit support |  |
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Henrik
Prince
of the Angaracks
Dec 2000
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posted February 23, 2001 15:32
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Well, usually disbanded regiments wherent transported anywhere (not as regiments or units annyway) but the money cost was colosal anyway, since you have to give the soldiers all their pay when disbanding their regiments (I am talking about the situation in the 17th century here, it might have changed later on), during campains lots of money went into maintaning or supporting the regiments and units, but not all of them got payed, this was basicaly ok since the soldiers plundered the country for money and food (which is why no nation would have an army in thier own territory, that would ruin thier infrastructure and agriculture), but when a regimnent was disbanded every single soldier had to get payed for his services, this made disbanding armies a huge finacial undertaking, this is also why in most peace treatys of the time you will see an an amount of money to be payed be the "losing" nation to the "winning" nation, these sums where called satisfaction (a word whit many meanings it would seem  ).
I think that disbanding a unit should cost twice as much as supporting it (in gold that is). |
Straybow
King
formerly known as don Don
b.02-15-99
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posted February 23, 2001 15:49
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Even in the nineteenth century the same problem persisted. In the American Civil War the Northern states were burdened with trying to move prisoners of war both ways. They refused to pay for transportation of their own men whose conscription had expired while prisoners in the South, etc. Quite a mess. |
Biddles
Prince
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Mar 99
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posted February 24, 2001 23:11
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Cyclotron has a great idea. Changing the support type with the government type allows a more realistic support structure.1. However, cyclotron's actual factors need to be adjusted or playtested. For example, a communist government would have a production bonus. Then your having them support nationally from production. IMHO you wouldn't even notice support costs under a commmunist government if that were to be the case. IRL though (I'm not one of those advocating total realism however -> The communists really did notice support costs because they were such a huge part of the budget. I'm not saying that the way cyclotron has it isn't fine, but they would definetly need to be playtested to make sure that one or the other wasn't far too powerful. 2. How would SE affect this. If SE is included, would just the government choices have support modifiers or would the economic ones have them as well. Only having them for government choices would be the simpler way to go, but would sacrifice realsim. For example, you wouldn't have the communism choice (since communism would be gov: Oligarchy, econ: socialist) but an oligarchy support situation probably wouldn't be the same as communism. (Sorry I haven't explained that well, I can't seem to find the words I need.) However if you had factors for both gov and econ then you probably could model the communism support by using the correct modifiers for each of gov: oligarchy and econ: socialist. However doing that you would have to be careful that that wouldn't change the outcome for gov: democracy econ: socialist (welfare state?). Either way it will be a minefield for SE.
[This message has been edited by Biddles (edited February 24, 2001).] |
down th' pub
Chieftain
anywhere but here
Dec 2000
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posted February 25, 2001 04:27
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How about we make the support indicator sensitive; if neme=Henrik support=gold, if not support=production.Or if US: support(Gold)=twice(everyone else put together) How about a tech which changes it from a feudal system (local) to Democratic (National) Sorry if I said anyting reasonable...  |
Sabre2th
Chieftain
Ballston Spa, NY, USA
Nov 2000
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posted February 27, 2001 17:23
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I haven't been online much lately, but there were some good ideas in here. I hope Firaxis has been keeping up with the message board.------------------
"We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything."
-Thomas A. Edison |
Sabre2th
Chieftain
Ballston Spa, NY, USA
Nov 2000
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posted March 12, 2001 17:31
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*BUMP* ------------------
"We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything."
-Thomas A. Edison |
Urban Ranger
Emperor
The City State of Noosphere
May 99
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posted March 12, 2001 23:25
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There are several costs involved with a military unit:1. The population cost. When you create a military unit you take away productive population from somewhere in your country. 2. Upfront shield and gold costs. These represent training, equipment, and so forth. 3. Support costs. Food must be involved somewhere as well, as soldiers are people too and they have to eat. For [1], the cost comes from the city where the unit is built unless we go to a new pool system for unit creation. For [2] and [3], this can come from the national treasury or locally depending on the political system or SE. |
Henrik
Prince
of the Angaracks
Dec 2000
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posted March 13, 2001 13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger on 03-12-2001 11:25 PM
There are several costs involved with a military unit:1. The population cost. When you create a military unit you take away productive population from somewhere in your country. 2. Upfront shield and gold costs. These represent training, equipment, and so forth. 3. Support costs. Food must be involved somewhere as well, as soldiers are people too and they have to eat. For [1], the cost comes from the city where the unit is built unless we go to a new pool system for unit creation. For [2] and [3], this can come from the national treasury or locally depending on the political system or SE.
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Don't forget the disband cost! Disbanding a millitary unit is hardly free, infact it is (or atleast was) more expensive than keeping them in service (see the thirty years war for the most ultimate proof of this). |
cyclotron7
Warlord
California
Jan 2001
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posted March 13, 2001 18:20
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Biddles: Why, thank you!I am aware that any system we propose should be tested first, but I believe a system based on governments balances realism, simplicity, and gameplay the best of any method I have seen. I think that both shields and gold are valid systems for support, and this is why I believe certain governments (see previous page) should pay gold, some shields, and some both. It's just a framework, but a promising one IMO. ------------------
"Any shred of compassion left in me was snuffed out forever when they cast me into the flames..."
- Marsil, called the Pretender |
colossus
Chieftain
Hong Kong
Nov 1999
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posted March 14, 2001 01:23
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quote:
Originally posted by cyclotron7 on 03-13-2001 06:20 PM
Biddles: Why, thank you!I am aware that any system we propose should be tested first, but I believe a system based on governments balances realism, simplicity, and gameplay the best of any method I have seen. I think that both shields and gold are valid systems for support, and this is why I believe certain governments (see previous page) should pay gold, some shields, and some both. It's just a framework, but a promising one IMO.
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I hate changing the mode of support with government!  One chief reason for different system of support in civ3 is to reduce micromanagement. By making the system of support dependent on both shield and gold, city and nationwide, government-type dependent mess up the whole matter and make it very complicated. I support that units be supported by gold and gold only. |
cyclotron7
Warlord
California
Jan 2001
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posted March 14, 2001 15:35
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The system of support changes with governments in Civ2 as well. Where is the micromanagement here? Just like in Civ2, you change governments according to what you need and what is best for your Civ. I don't see any micromanagement, although just like in Civ2 some experimaentation with government types always helps to find the gov't right for you.------------------
"Any shred of compassion left in me was snuffed out forever when they cast me into the flames..."
- Marsil, called the Pretender | |
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