for built in scenarios, only make 4 AT MOST. the rest we can make on our own. the first one would be a easy, step by step instructions scenario, that gives us an idea of how, and all that to make our own scenario, it would show us how to change units clothes' color, up to changing city tile looks, etc etc.

the next 3 would be the 3 most major things (i think) in this world:
1. World War II
2. Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire.
3. THe American Revolution.

note to number 3, I realize that many (maybe even most) on this page are not american, or do not live in america, so you would highly disagree with me on this one as being one of the major things in this worlds history, but think about it, if the american revolution would not have happened, then america would not be, and just imagine our world without america, Hitler would have undoubtadly won World War II, Sadame Husane would be enjoying himself in Kuwait, not to mention Korea, or Vietnam. DOnt jump on me for saying these things, I am not trying to put America in front of everyone else, I am just stating the facts, but just think about a world without the constitution, without a 'free' peoples republic. actually, America WAS meant to be a republic, but it is now a demacracy, and quickly turning into a socialism.

Instead, there should be a colonisation scenario, in which you control one of the colonising European nations trying to establish itself in Africa. If the aspects of the game such as colonies are introduced, then you could declare independence and stuff...

quote: Originally posted by Evil Capitalist on 01-14-2001 05:34 AM The American revolution a major world event on a par with WW2. Don't make me laugh. If we're including that, why not the Conquest of England? Or the Chinese Civil war? Or the Russian? Or the Turkish war of independence. All of these could be seen as more important at the time.

I've never even knew the turks had a civil war. Sure, the conquest of britain was major, but if it didn't happen, there would still be British. the chinese civil war? it effected no one except themselves, UNLIKE the american war of independence.

if you dont think America has had an important effect on the world, go back to your history books. and if you do agree that America HAS had a great effect on the world, then answer this, what is the basis of america, simple answer, its freedoms and rights, the constitution to be specific. and the constitution would not have been ratified had the american revolution NOT taken place.

Yes, your education system is screwed up.

Sure, the conquest of britain was major, but if it didn't happen, there would still be British.

If the American Civil War had not happenned, there would still be Americans.

the chinese civil war? it effected no one except themselves, UNLIKE the american war of independence.

Ignoring your deplorable spelling and the implications derived from the Chaos Theory, we can safely say that an Imperial or Democratic China would have resulted in a very different century.

what is the basis of america, simple answer, its freedoms and rights, the constitution to be specific. and the constitution would not have been ratified had the american revolution NOT taken place.

Your Declaration of Independence and to a lesser degree Constitution were hardly groundbreaking in its content. They borrowed from Emmanuel Kant and a dozen other philosophers most of their content. A much more important thing to remember about your Revolution is that it probably inspired the French one.

i agree, even though i am an american, but the American
Revolution is just as important as any other major revolutions, russian, french, etc.

the Napoleonic Wars are far too important to be left out & if you think about it, the Napoleonic Wars was the first world war & if that is true, then world war three had took place

--------------------------
New Yorkers are true americans cuz they come from all corners of the globe

Even though my interest and bias think the ideals that were fought over in the American Revolutionary War (liberty and freedom) were the best of all such wars, it shouldn't be a priority for a Civ3 scenario. The scenarios should consist of the following basic goals:
winning a war against an enemy
conquering all enemies militarily
conquering all enemies economically (or other factors)
first to reach a place/AC
maintain the peace or just survive

That way, scenario developers can get an idea of the methods and mechanics of developing custom scenarios.

I played it once (as Brits) and couldn't get a Major Victory because one of the objective cities got destroyed.

ps. I forgot to mention that the Americans were also the ones that stopped Sadam Husane.

pps. why make scenarios just because they involved 3 or more different countries even though they had nothing major. sure, I know the nepoleolic wars were major. But the american revolution is most likely the number one reason why the americans and british are not best friends any more. and it was the most major thing happening at the time.

quote: Originally posted by St Leo on 01-14-2001 10:07 PM I've never even knew the turks had a civil war. Yes, your education system is screwed up. Sure, the conquest of britain was major, but if it didn't happen, there would still be British. If the American Civil War had not happenned, there would still be Americans. the chinese civil war? it effected no one except themselves, UNLIKE the american war of independence. Ignoring your deplorable spelling and the implications derived from the Chaos Theory, we can safely say that an Imperial or Democratic China would have resulted in a very different century. what is the basis of america, simple answer, its freedoms and rights, the constitution to be specific. and the constitution would not have been ratified had the american revolution NOT taken place. Your Declaration of Independence and to a lesser degree Constitution were hardly groundbreaking in its content. They borrowed from Emmanuel Kant and a dozen other philosophers most of their content. A much more important thing to remember about your Revolution is that it probably inspired the French one.

1. You dont live in the United States, that much is clear.

2. I said nothing to do with the american civil war. I dont know why the hell you said that, pure stupid.

3. so what if it inspired the french one? our revolution was a great example, why the hell wouldn't someone have the right to break away from tyranny? The french government was collapsing, they needed a new form of government. And the american government was the best to choose from, I promise you that.

The only scenario I play besides WWII is a scenario I download two years ago from apolyton called "The 20th century". It starts in 1918 with Germany, Russia, League of Nations, China, Japan, USA and Brittain.

Why is it so good?
You simply start and play each nation the way you want. The data was pretty accurate historically and the nations are just beginning to develop themselves. Most often I played germany and started a WWII or russia and started WWII as well .

This was very open ended and very not easy. You had a great number of options. You could wage war or be isolationist and build Space ships. WWII was always started (because of attitudes, not because of events) by China and Japan and then germany and the league of nations.

In Civ 3 there could be more civilizations so there would be france spain and more countries. If rebellions are possible, events could be programmed so that new nations will form in india, the middle east, south america and africa from nations who were previously under imperilistic control.

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 01-16-2001 05:17 PM ps. I forgot to mention that the Americans were also the ones that stopped Sadam Husane.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but several other nations contributed to the offensive. I'd like to see how far you'ldve got without Saudi help.

quote: pps. why make scenarios just because they involved 3 or more different countries even though they had nothing major. sure, I know the nepoleolic wars were major. But the american revolution is most likely the number one reason why the americans and british are not best friends any more. and it was the most major thing happening at the time.

Brits and yanks not best friends. You say we don't know about your history. If you knew about your history you would realise that since George Canning's spell as foreign secretary Anglo American relationships improved dramatically. Unless you noticed you did help us out in two world wars.

The arguement that nothing else major was happening at the time is completely irrelevent. It would justify any scenario from Kosovo to the War of Jenkins' ear.

quote: ppps. By the way, our constitution and declaration of independence were taken from other historical stuff...I know that!, you think I'm stupid? You think I dont know my own countries history. But, it is because of those two documents that america is what it is today. since when has any government in the history of the world been as long lasting, and successful as the american government. sure, there are lots of governments around the world that have lasted much longer then americans', but since when were they 'good' governments, giving the people what they freely deserve.

Ladies and Gentlemen, back on track!
Current interesting points are (I'm adding some just now):

- Firaxis releasing just a bunch of scenarios; > do you like/dislike? (downloading later can be expensive and tiresome)

- Main sources of others scenarios you'll like more:
from fans on Apolyton or Firaxis official site (at least one new every month for a year to keep the game fresh) > Fans or Firaxis?

- Scenarios on the box must be:
mainly around war,
peaceful development and diplomacy
or a mix of the two?
> Suggestion on scenario subject are welcome, nasty disagreement are not
Mark and DanQ can make a poll to rate the resulting suggestions, keep the guns reloading for that moment

My humble opinion.

I prefer the game be able to allow scenario creators to be fans. Firaxis does not have time to make countless scenarios. They need the time to make Civ III a great game and then begin working on whatever the next game is.

quote: Originally posted by Evil Capitalist on 01-17-2001 03:44 AM Try the British government. Emancipated slaves before America. Allowed women the vote throughout before America IIRC. Also made its people the richest and most powerful in the world.

Your talking completely about britain years ago, how about today. I know the british have a good government, I personally think they have a great government, its just that look at the america what it is TODAY.

p.s. Most americans back then disagreed with slavery. it was mainly the southern states that wanted it.

I know the saudis helped! It was thanks to them that we had airbases in saudi to help out...dah! But if america didn't help out, it would have taken the other countries alot longer to defeat Husane. We were the ones that sent in the majority of the troops.

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 01-17-2001 11:31 PM I know the saudis helped! It was thanks to them that we had airbases in saudi to help out...dah! But if america didn't help out, it would have taken the other countries alot longer to defeat Husane. We were the ones that sent in the majority of the troops.

Defeat Hussein??? He is still there.

My country, the U.S. did nothing in the Gulf War. It was a war to maintain cheap oil. It ended with us leaving their leader as the head of their government. What did we accomplish?

I mean, little thing known collectively as 'The Industrial Revolution'....heard of it Diablo? That literally created the world as it is today, a tiny bit more important than a revolution in one country I think, regardless of who it involved.

I realize he is still there, you are right about that, but we did do one thing, we drove the Iraqies of of Kuwait.

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 01-20-2001 10:53 PM I realize he is still there, you are right about that, but we did do one thing, we drove the Iraqies of of Kuwait.

If you mean that we bulldozed Iraqis than you are quite right. We do not know how many we killed in the war because we dumped sand on their heads.

The 'war' was so one sided that construction crews could have been used to win the 'war.' I do not think this proves that the U.S. is so strong nor would necessarily have taken our allies longer to defeat him had England, France, Germany, and others participated.

Should the U.S. have gotten involved? IMHO I would say yes, but it is something that we should never brag about nor use to say we are so great. War is a terrible thing and when it has no end result or sucess than it is pointless and those that died did so for no gain to anyone.

quote: Originally posted by tniem on 01-21-2001 04:07 PM If you mean that we bulldozed Iraqis than you are quite right. We do not know how many we killed in the war because we dumped sand on their heads. The 'war' was so one sided that construction crews could have been used to win the 'war.' I do not think this proves that the U.S. is so strong nor would necessarily have taken our allies longer to defeat him had England, France, Germany, and others participated. Should the U.S. have gotten involved? IMHO I would say yes, but it is something that we should never brag about nor use to say we are so great. War is a terrible thing and when it has no end result or sucess than it is pointless and those that died did so for no gain to anyone.

I agree totally. I was saying that to make a point, nothing more. If anyone here is offended because I am putting us americans above other nationalities, please forgive me, that is and was not the case in any way, shape or form.

quote: Originally posted by tniem on 01-21-2001 04:07 PM If you mean that we bulldozed Iraqis than you are quite right. We do not know how many we killed in the war because we dumped sand on their heads. The 'war' was so one sided that construction crews could have been used to win the 'war.' I do not think this proves that the U.S. is so strong nor would necessarily have taken our allies longer to defeat him had England, France, Germany, and others participated.

The Allied ground advance was so fast that the allied bombers had a very difficult time in identifying their targets when navigating. It actually ended up with lots of allied targets being bombed by allied planes...

Also, the British, in the past, have always used a rather snobbish foreign policy, especially during Britain's golden age as the richest and most powerful nation in the world.
In Ireland, we still insist on holding on to the last six counties of Ulster, less than a sixth of Ireland!

But how about we get back to the point of the thread, would these scenarios be good to play. IMHO, the rise and fall of the roman empire would be great, as would WWII. However, the american revolution wooldn't. Playing as the redcoats, it would be too easy to win (that's if it is made historically accurate).

Beter scenarios would be:
1. The french revolution
2. The British empire
3. Middle east supremeacy/Gulf war
4. A colonization scenario
5. I'm sure there are others

you are wrong. for one thing, I dont want the 'AR' in there just because I am american. I want that in civ3 as a built in scenario because it created what is now 'america', which has had a great effect on the world more then any other country SINCE america became, america. I am NOT trying to boast. that is a pure fact. Our economy has led the rest of the world for years. Our freedoms and peoples rights have led the world since 1789, when George Washington was inaugarated as the first President. Our military strength has led the world in years. I am truly sorry, but you are wrong.

It's too short. There's little scope for scientific advancement. Wonders would make no historical sense in this scenario. Most of the action would be tactical military manuveuring, the sort of thing that Civ doesn't model particularly well. Settlement of new cities was not a factor, etc, etc.