quote: Originally posted by rremus on 11-02-2000 09:14 AM To be honest, I can hardly see any use of animation at all, units or map elements... Can be fun at the first time I play, but after a while I turn it off, if I can. It's only increasing the time to develeop the game and is adding a LOT of resources needed to play the game. I think that the fact that I had to BUY a TNT2 video board just to play PanzerGeneral3 is a good point!

To be honest, I'm looking for a major upgrade from Civ2 to Civ3; one that will support the computing power of high-end systems, while at the same time will run on low-end machines. If Civ3 is not a major upgrade, I definitley will NOT buy.

Another feature I think at least a 2D map could show is terrain elevation.

- Rib -

A little advice, you're pretty much sitting inside a beehive full of linear people. Only a few will think hard about what will make something better. Do not force yourself to try and help them understand, it just doesn't work..

quote: A little advice, you're pretty much sitting inside a beehive full of linear people. Only a few will think hard about what will make something better. Do not force yourself to try and help them understand, it just doesn't work..

Instead of just saying that 3d animaiton is great, blah blah, offer a way that it can be done. How can the existing map [the smac one] facilitate such a thing? It can't! So what should Firaxis do? Waste their resources improving an aspect of gameplay that is totally unimportant to all but a very few? An anspect of gameplay that will quickly be forgotten as the player delves deeper into the game? You guys would do well to remember Diablo 2 - its graphics engine was terrible, but because the programmers focused on the core gameplay issues, the game turned out to be excellent. Firaxis should do likewise and not waste too much time on creating cute 3d waterfalls - I assure you, the novelty will very quickly wear off.

See - we do think. And not as linear as has been suggested. We just think realistically.

quote: To be honest, I'm looking for a major upgrade from Civ2 to Civ3

I agree, but a major upgrade means for me something else then just 3D graphics. I expect better diplomacy, trade, AI, combat, goverment model, new ideas like rise and fall of empires, borders, tourism, news reports, no more ICS or BAB, and so on.

quote: Anyway far, far more important for me is the gameplay.

Exactly - Like I said above, having 3d graphx doesn't mean a thing - the novelty would wear off very quickly...

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius on 11-03-2000 01:37 AM I agree, but a major upgrade means for me something else then just 3D graphics. I expect better diplomacy, trade, AI, combat, goverment model, new ideas like rise and fall of empires, borders, tourism, news reports, no more ICS or BAB, and so on. Of course, better graphics is a must, but I hope Firaxis will focus on the more important things I described earlier. Just to be clear: I'm for beautiful graphics. 3D? I don't know. Anyway far, far more important for me is the gameplay.

Of course I want more than just 2D, 3D graphics!! Read my other posts in this forum to find out more.

quote: Originally posted by Ribannah on 11-02-2000 09:46 AM I much prefer the quiet, relaxing isometric view of Civ2 over 3D and animated units etc. I want to be able to think straight, can't do that if the screen is constantly demanding my attention.

I have to agree with Rib on this one. They (Firaxis) probably add animated units however. The only 3D-effect i could accept would be some kind of reliefed map (still isometric view) with (very minor) elevated increments from deep ocean all the way to mountain.

OCEAN SURFACE CURRENTS. The ocean surface currents are determined to a great extent by the winds. In both the Northern and Southern hemispheres, the winds blow generally from the west at high latitudes and from the east at low latitudes. They are called prevailing winds (see Wind; Weather). These winds apply a torque, or twisting force, to the surface of the oceans. It is easy to visualize how such a force would cause currents to circulate clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere, counterclockwise in the Southern Hemisphere. The currents on the western sides of the oceans, such as the Gulf Stream in the North Atlantic Ocean, are stronger than those on the eastern sides. This effect is caused by the rotation of the Earth. A water particle that moves toward either pole from the equator is subjected to a torque due to the Earth's rotation in addition to the torque applied by the wind. When the water particle moves toward the equator, however, the effect of the torque due to the Earth's rotation is reversed--it is then in opposition to the torque applied by the wind. On the western sides of oceans in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres, this causes the surface currents--which flow poleward, away from the equator--to be narrower and swifter than the complementary currents which flow toward the equator on the eastern sides of the oceans.

Ocean Currents Have Similarities
The corresponding currents in different oceans would be expected to have similar characteristics. While the movement of ocean water is in reality a complicated process, a current such as the Gulf Stream--which is the western-boundary current in the North Atlantic Ocean--has much in common with the western-boundary current of the North Pacific Ocean--the Kuroshio, or Japan Current. The eastern-boundary current in the North Pacific Ocean--the California Current--is likewise similar to the eastern-boundary current in the South Pacific Ocean--the Peru Current, or Humboldt Current. Oceanographers continue to learn more about the major ocean currents. In recent years, two currents in particular have been studied. One is the Gulf Stream; the other is a strange, recently discovered current that flows eastward along the equator, just below the surface of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans and, at times, the Indian Ocean. The Pacific Equatorial Undercurrent, also called the Cromwell Current, does not appear on the chart of ocean surface currents. The Cromwell Current is embedded in the westward-flowing Pacific South Equatorial Current. Its top is found between 150 and 300 feet (46 and 91 meters) below the ocean surface. The Cromwell Current, only about 500 feet (150 meters) thick, is 250 miles (402 kilometers) wide. Most currents shift their positions, but the Cromwell Current is always centered on the equator.

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From Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc.

quote: Originally posted by Antonios on 11-03-2000 03:47 PM I think that we must think and act like jrhughes98.We must demand from Firaxis MAJOR changes.We need a NEW game which will become the most famous game ever produced and will set new standars.Stop crying about requirements!Be more smart!Look in the future!Ask for more changes which will make the game more realistic.And be sure;when Civ3 come you will be proud for yourselves!

Why thank you, Antonios?! I'm glad to know that at least one person can understand my point of view.

quote: Originally posted by UltraSonix on 11-03-2000 04:50 PM It doesn't need cute little sprites of waterfalls to do this.

I didn't just dream up the idea of waterfalls on maps just for looks. I thought of this idea because waterfalls, in reality, are dangerous if boats (especially non-motored) get caught in river rapids, unable to escape, and go over the falls. Think about it.

However I think that firaxis will probably go with 3D graphics. They are creating a whole new graphics engine and I don't see what the point of doing that would be if they were going to use 2D graphics (I'm sure they have plenty of 2D engines, i.e. SMAC gfx engine, that they could have used).

And to Ultra and everyone else worrying about whether it will run on your computer don't, by the time firaxis releases civ3 we will all be using Quantum Computers anyway.

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- Biddles

quote: Originally posted by UltraSonix on 11-03-2000 11:32 PM Maybe not quite, but I'm not that worried about the sys reqs. I'm more worried about them wasting their time on an aspect of the game that it relatively unimportant.

But if they have graphic designers on staff whose sole mission in life is to create graphics for civ3 then they might as well use them. It's not as if it takes that long to make a 3D model compared to a 2D sprite.

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- Biddles

quote: Originally posted by UltraSonix on 11-05-2000 04:13 PM That's a valid point, but I was talking more about designing a whole new 3d graphx engine, which I see many here support...

But Firaxis have already said they are making a new graphics engine for civ3. Were gettysberg and antiem 3D (Never did play them). If they are they would already know what to do. If they aren't, it is going to take them a little longer to make the engine, but with the amount of time this game is taking it shouldn't postpone the game.

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- Biddles