Elucidus: I share your concern that this must not affect the fun of the game, but I think it will surely enhance it, since it will take more to get a great city, and hence not all cities will be alike.

Diodorus Sicilus: Can you post your changes here in the forum ? I would love to see what you are doing. I havn´t got enought time to delve into this matters right now, my graduation project is in a busy phase right now. But I could surly be used to discuss the pros and cons of an idea.

I don´t know if there is any way to know in SLIC if there is a road or anything between cities, but the trade system seem to be using the movement points it takes to move between to cities to determin the number of caravans it takes to establish a trade route. So there might be a way...

Can your mod also address the following concern of mine (deals with AI dumbness),
[url] ../../Forum35/HTML/000584.html?12
[/url]

As you may or may not know, the const.txt contains all kinds of flags for map creation, slider settings, unit bonuses, city settings, bombard and pollution settings and effects, plus all the special attack settings.
The flags are placed in an almost random order, however. So, I just spent about 30 min. grouping them in four general areas:
1)Map creation
2)Unit, city and pollution
3)Special attack
4)Unused ctp1 flags

I will post the file soon at my website. I have made some changes to bring the file in line with the Med mod I, but I think any mod-maker would be happy to use this file, since it makes finding things much easier.

Also, I have made it possible for Spies and Cyber Ninjas to Sue and be Sued, and for Clerics, Abolishionists, and Slavers to be Sued.
This gives you a way of killing those units without going to war with their owning nation. I wish I had thought of this a long time ago.

Thanks. As long as there are guys like you, there is hope for a better CTP2 .

I think we should stop comparing CTP2 with Civ2 though. CTP1 was good (in my view), but CTP2 doesn't offer anything substantial beyond CTP1. OK correction: it offers substantial things like mayors, but I don't think these could have been too hard to implement.

------------------
Big Dave

Actually, not such a bad thing since I have lots of school work to do. I'm very excited that there may be versions of Wes' mod before I get the game.

If explosive city growth is the problem everyone says it is I would appreciate a mod that reduces the base values for tiles and increases the strength of tile improvements. Is there a way to reduce the value of the city tile and thus reduce ICS? I don't think it was possible in CTP 1, so I imagine it would be difficult for CTP 2 as well.

Thanks to all the players out there who are working hard on modifications.

I have thought about changing the city bonus, but I figured it was necessary to get the city going, especially on rough terrain.

Joseph, you can only have one 'standard' improvement (food, prod or commerce), and one 'special' improvement (airport, lookout tower, etc.).

Btw, the risks.txt, which sets goody hut gifts and Barbarian appearances, is exactly the same as in ctp1, so I have simply dropped the risks.txt from the Med mod into the Med mod II.
There is also a flag in the diffDB pertaining to the max advance you can get from a hut, but I haven't experimented with it.

In the strategies.txt, Barbarians are listed with the same flags as all the other personalities, so you can make them whatever you want them to be.
I have made a few changes to them to get them to garrison their cities, for example.
There was also a line in the userprofile.txt in ctp1 that you could set to make new, regular civ whenever a city revolts, rather than Barbarians. I don't know what to do about giving them the old civ's techs, however.

I have had some trouble implementing Harlan's Graphics mod into the Med mod II. The file setup is slightly different in ctp1 and ctp2 when it comes to the ages and building styles, and I can't figure out how to implement the city graphics. If anyone can figure this out, it would be a big help.

I have been working on implementing the new units into the mod, 26 new units in all. Below is a list of them, with where they came from, and their ctp2 name, followed by their sprite's number. The list will be hard to read here, but when I post the file, it will make sense.

Old name New name
------------ ------------

Inserted Ctp1 units SpriteID no.
-----------------------------------------
1)Ctp1 Cannon Cannon 19
2)Ctp1 Cavalry Dragoon 20
3)Ctp1 Musketeer Musketeer 22
4)Ctp1 Artillery Artillery 28
5)Ctp1 Plasmatica Plasmatica 70
6)Ctp1 Sp. Marines Storm Marines 73
7)Ctp1 Fusion Tank Hovertank 78
8)Ctp1 Swarm Swarm 79

Re-named Ctp2 units Newsprite no.
------------------------------------------
Ctp2 Warrior Man-at-Arms 003
Ctp2 Samurai Samurai 006
Ctp2 Cannon Culverin 019
Ctp2 Spy Secret Agent 034
Ctp2 Aircraft Car. Nuclear Car. 036*
Ctp2 Bomber Jet Bomber 047
Ctp2 Fusion Tank Plasma Cannon 078*
Ctp2 Frigate PT Boat 080
Ctp2 Artillery Self-Prop. Gun 082

New units
---------------------------------
09)EB Zulu Warrior Warrior 001
10)EB Zulu Archer Javelineer 009
11)TD Slinger Slinger 018
12)TD Javelin Cav. Light Cavalry 028
13)TD Noble Cavalry Heavy Cavalry 066
14)TD Swordsman Swordsman 067
15)TD Ironclad Monitor 070
16)HT Horse Archer Horse Archer 071
17)TD Egyptian Spear Spearman 072
18)HT Frigate Frigate 073
19)TD Spy Spy 074
***Militia pic Militia pic 076
20)TD Noble Noble 081
21)HT Galleon Galleon 083
22)HT Carrier Carrier 084
23)AP Missile Cr. Missile Cruiser 085
24)HT B-17 Bomber 086
25)HT Dive Bomber Dive Bomber 087
26)AP Helicopter Attack Heli. 088

TD Fyrdman (unused) 091
TD Arquebusier (unused) 092
TD Bombard (unused) 093
TD Cog (Caravel) (unused) 094
95+ open
* civ_str change only

Wes, when you write, that slavers/abolitionist/clerics can be sued - then I think we are missing a form for an "old" lawyer to do the job?! Just as we have "old" spies and so.

A few notes:
1)How are the pollution settings? About right, too low?
2)Does anyone want to re-insert the Subneural Ad? I never used it, preferring to build offensive units at that stage of the game, but some people have called for it in other threads.
3)Is the Nanite Factory unbalancing?

In looking through the DiffDB, I noticed some new flags; max ahead, min ahead and max behind and min behind. They appear to be aimed at working like Gedrin's Disseminate triggers that I put into the Med mod I. I am glad to see them in there. They should help keep the AIs from getting either too far ahead or behind the human.

In the units text, there are a couple of new flags; IsMounted and Explodes. I don't know what the IsMounted does, but the Explodes gives the unit's bombard attack what was called 'splatter damage' in Warcraft. I thought that I had seen evidence of this playing the game, and finding this flag proves it. Another improvement, as far as I'm concerned.

Finally, here is a paste of the new unit build lists. I feel pretty good about this arrangement.

# 13

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL {
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_SLAVER
Unit UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
Unit UNIT_CLERIC
Unit UNIT_SPY
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_CORPORATE_BRANCH
Unit UNIT_TELEVANGELIST
Unit UNIT_EMPATHIC_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_NUKE
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
Unit UNIT_INFECTOR
Unit UNIT_ECO_TERRORIST
Unit UNIT_ECO_RANGER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_PEACEFUL {
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
Unit UNIT_CLERIC
Unit UNIT_NUKE
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_CORPORATE_BRANCH
Unit UNIT_TELEVANGELIST
Unit UNIT_EMPATHIC_DIPLOMAT
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_MILITARIST {
Unit UNIT_SLAVER
Unit UNIT_SPY
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_CORPORATE_BRANCH
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
Unit UNIT_NUKE
Unit UNIT_INFECTOR
Unit UNIT_ECO_TERRORIST
Unit UNIT_ECO_RANGER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_NUCLEAR {
Unit UNIT_NUKE
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_LAND_SETTLER {
Unit UNIT_SETTLER
Unit UNIT_URBAN_PLANNER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_SETTLER {
Unit UNIT_SEA_ENGINEER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SCOUT {
Unit UNIT_SPY_PLANE
Unit UNIT_SCOUT_SUB
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_DEFENSE {
Unit UNIT_SPEARMAN
Unit UNIT_HOPLITE
Unit UNIT_PIKEMEN
Unit UNIT_MUSKETEER
Unit UNIT_INFANTRYMAN
Unit UNIT_MACHINE_GUNNER
Unit UNIT_PLASMATICA
Unit UNIT_LEVIATHON
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_OFFENSE {
Unit UNIT_WARRIOR
Unit UNIT_SWORDSMAN
Unit UNIT_MAN_AT_ARMS
Unit UNIT_SAMURAI
Unit UNIT_MUSKETEER
Unit UNIT_INFANTRYMAN
Unit UNIT_FASCIST
Unit UNIT_HOVER_INFANTRY
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_RANGED {
Unit UNIT_SLINGER
Unit UNIT_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_CATAPULT
Unit UNIT_CULVERIN
Unit UNIT_CANNON
Unit UNIT_ARTILLERY
Unit UNIT_FUSION_TANK
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MOUNTED_RANGED {
Unit UNIT_JAVELINEER
Unit UNIT_MOUNTED_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_HORSE_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_SELF_PROP_GUN
Unit UNIT_WAR_WALKER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MOUNTED_FLANKER {
Unit UNIT_LIGHT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_HEAVY_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_KNIGHT
Unit UNIT_DRAGOON
Unit UNIT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_TANK
Unit UNIT_HOVERTANK

}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MARINE {
Unit UNIT_MARINE
Unit UNIT_STORM_MARINE
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_PARATROOPER {
Unit UNIT_PARATROOPER
Unit UNIT_SWARM
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_ANTI_AIR {
Unit UNIT_MOBILE_SAM

}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_TRANSPORT {
Unit UNIT_CATAMARAN
Unit UNIT_GALLEON
Unit UNIT_TROOP_SHIP
Unit UNIT_CRAWLER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_NAVAL_ATTACK {
Unit UNIT_FIRE_TRIREME
Unit UNIT_CARRACK
Unit UNIT_SHIP_OF_THE_LINE
Unit UNIT_IRONCLAD
Unit UNIT_DESTROYER
Unit UNIT_BATTLESHIP
Unit UNIT_PLASMA_DESTROYER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_NAVAL_DEFENSE {
Unit UNIT_LONGSHIP
Unit UNIT_MONITOR
Unit UNIT_PT_BOAT
Unit UNIT_FRIGATE
Unit UNIT_MISSILE_CRUISER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SUBMARINES {
Unit UNIT_SUBMARINE
Unit UNIT_NUCLEAR_SUBMARINE
Unit UNIT_MOREY_STRIKER
Unit UNIT_KRAKEN
Unit UNIT_DREADNAUGHT
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_ATTACK {
Unit UNIT_DIVE_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_ATTACK_HELICOPTER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_DEFENSE {
Unit UNIT_FIGHTER
Unit UNIT_INTERCEPTOR
Unit UNIT_STEALTH_FIGHTER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_BOMBER {
Unit UNIT_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_JET_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_STEALTH_BOMBER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_TRANSPORT {
Unit UNIT_CARGO_HELICOPTER
Unit UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
Unit UNIT_SPACE_PLANE
}

Question, Wes: why maintain the Samurai instead of changing over to the Legion? Or at least why not add the Legion to the new units? I'm not criticizing; I'm just curious. My personal preference is for the Legion, so I'll probably rename it and swap sprites when I get the game.

Another question: can two (or more) people using the same mods play multiplayer together? Or will these changes only be valid for single-player games? Given the anticipated improvements in the AI, single-player won't be bad, but I'm sure many will wish to play the modified version with other humans.

Looking good so far but playtesting will be the ultimate test. (Fondly remembering the many MONTHS spent playtesting all the mods). Of course, since I still have no copy at all of CtP2, I am going to have to sit this one out for a while. (Maybe Mr. Ogre can go down on his lunch hour and put the copies in the mail). Just seems a little ironic that none of the CtP1 mod/CtP2 beta people, who are in the best position to answer questions and stiple all this insane negativity/problems, have no copies.

I've noticed in one of the other threads that there seems to be a problem building fusion plants due to the Nanite Defuser. The Nanite Defuser destroys all nukes including nuclear plants, however the nuclear plant is a prerequisite for building the fusion plant. Therefore, once the Nanite Defuser has been built Fusion Plants are unable to be built.

First, and anyone can answer this. Would this be a glitch or is the Fusion Plant a quasi-nuclear energy source that would not be buildable with the Nanite Defuser.

Second, if this is a glitch, is it possible to modify the code so that the Fusion Plant is not dependant upon building the Nuclear Plant

Are you interested in hearing some suggestions and ideas for altering the economic model to one which is, uh, better? Less conducive to cheese, more challenging in higher difficulties and harsh terrain, and so forth?

My, how this all sounds familiar, just like old times... Sigh...

As for the Legion, I plan to use that as a special wonder-enabled unit. I have a list of these units on page one of this thread.

For multiplayer, all players have to be using the exact same files, but if they are, they can play together. From what I hear, the Med mod 4 is quite popular with multiplayers. I even had one guy write in to complain that he liked to play with the original settings, but that it was hard to find partners who didn't use the Med mod.

Hi, Don. Nice to see you back on the boards.
I forgot to insert the Noble and Spy into the special unit lists. I haven't really looked at them yet.
In Ctp2, you set the unit-types built as a percentage of the total number. It is not city-based like Ctp1. Thus, you can set special units as, say, 2% of the total, or whatever you want.

As far as play-testing, I hope that between our Ctp1 experience and the refinement of Ctp2 over Ctp1, that play-testing will be measured in a few weeks rather than months, at least for the basic version of the game. Then we can play with all the slic stuff I am sure the gee..., ah, guys here will come up with.

Metamorph, I read you thread with interest. If you have some specific proposals, I would be very interested in hearing them. You could post them here, or in your own thread, since that one seems to be concentrating on the topic of terrain and pop.

If I might suggest something: How about changing the settings for radius 1 so that each pop only collects one tile's worth of resources, rather than 8/6 th's, as it is currently? This would slow down early growth, and help address any ICS concerns people have.
It may be that this would be all that is needed, so that we wouldn't have to get into changing terrain values and improvement effects and all that.

My $0.02 - It take too long to get to Monarchy. Maybe an intermediate government type ?

Love the idea of the refugee trigger - can anything be done about re-apportioning slaves. Seems my front line cities get huge, but my capitol gets none.

Really liked the idea of Railroad increasing food through re-apportionment. Could something be done with creating a "hidden" building (say "Depot"), giving it a +10% food, and give all cities the building upon the Civ's reaching Railroad tech? Just a thought.

As for the food, I would like for you to be able to build food caravans, which I thought were supposed to be included in Ctp2. There may be a problem with getting the AIs to use this, though.

I finished the unit build queues in the strategies.txt today, and this is what the default setting looks like.

// Number of special units that should be built
SettlerUnitsCount 1
SeaTransportUnitsCount 1
AirTransportUnitsCount 1
SpecialUnitsCount 1
ScoutUnitsCount 2

// Types of special units that should be built
SettlerUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_LAND_SETTLER
SeaTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_TRANSPORT
AirTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_TRANSPORT
SpecialUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL
FreightUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FREIGHT
ScoutUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SCOUT

// maximum percent of conventional units to build before building
// special units of specified type
BuildTransportProductionLevel 0.25
BuildSettlerProductionLevel 0.25
BuildScoutProductionLevel 0.15

// Unit Percents must total to 1 (100%)
DefensiveUnitsPercent 0.10
OffensiveUnitsPercent 0.10
RangedUnitsPercent 0.15
MtdRangedUnitsPercent 0.10
MtdFlankUnitsPercent 0.10
MarineUnitsPercent 0.02
ParatroopUnitsPercent 0.01
AntiAirUnitsPercent 0.10
NavalAttUnitsPercent 0.07
NavalDefUnitsPercent 0.07
SubmarineUnitsPercent 0.06
AirAttackUnitsPercent 0.02
AirDefUnitsPercent 0.07
BomberUnitsPercent 0.03

// Types of standard units that should be built
DefensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_DEFENSE
OffensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_OFFENSE
RangedUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_RANGED
MtdRangedUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MOUNTED_RANGED
MtdFlankUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MOUNTED_FLANKER
MarineeUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MARINE
ParatroopUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_PARATROOPER
AntiAirUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_ANTI_AIR
NavalAttUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_NAVAL_ATTACK
NavalDefUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_NAVAL_DEFENSE
SubmarineUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SUBMARINES
AirAttackUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_ATTACK
AirDefenseUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_DEFENSE
BomberUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_BOMBER

If you put these at 1 the AI will only build max 1?

Wont that be to few? 1 transport.

Played around with the goal and strategy files myself to see if i could get the AI to attack more. I had som limited success. Seems there are a few factors that needs to be tweaked. First the priority of the attacking GOALs Then how many to consider i beafed these up to alot then tweaking max executed aswell.

Also I beleive the factors how to judge if attack strength is enough in strategy.txt need to be lowered somewhat i lowered all of them to only need 10% of the army attaked strength, seems now the computer players attacks everything . Its better than before but probly just should lower them a little bit. Just to get the swarm attack.

There also seem to be a number issue here. Alot of units mean more armies so the theory above might be right.

One thing I plan to do is to use SLIC to group units and see if that helps. If you look at the various scenario files, you'll see some commands that can be used, such as
getarmyfromunit() and grouporder().

Unfortunately, since the SLIC documentation is not out yet, it's unclear what parameters some of the useful commands may need, such as moveorder().

So, theoretically, one could select good units for the AI (using SLIC), get them to move to a particular location, group them into armies, and make them attack opponent's city.

One problem I see with this approach is that the dumb AI might decide to over-ride some of these commands you program. If it doesn't, then you could see massive attacks taking place, due to above program!!

Similarly, the empty transport problem could be solved
using SLIC. Get the AI to board units into the transport, protect the transport with warships and move them to the right unloading location.

Empire sliders work correctly now.

PERCENT_RIVER 15 # percent of land with a river on it ( was 5 )
RIVER_CELL_WIDTH 4 # Size of cells to be searched for river starts ( was 5 )
PARADROP_DISTANCE 10 # how far away can paratroopers drop? ( was 20 )
PARADROP_SUCCESS_PERCENT 75 # a miss results in a drop to a neighboring square (was 100)
ASSAULT_DESTROY_BUILDING_CHANCE 1.0 # chance of an assault on a city destroying a building ( was .1 )
BOMBARD_DESTROY_BUILDING_CHANCE 0.4 # chance of a bombardment on a city destroying a building ( was .1 )
COMBAT_VETERAN_CHANCE 0.25 ( was .1 )
MAX_REQUESTS_PER_PLAYER_PER_TURN 4 ( was 3 )
SLAVES_PER_MILITARY_UNIT 2 ( was 3 )
FLOOD_CHANGES_COAST_TO_WATER_CHANCE 0.1 ( was .5 )

AI_GOAL_TIME_SLICE 125 # time in milliseconds for an AI frame
AI_MAX_TIME_SLICE 1250 # (in milliseconds)if the ai exceeds this time its turn is ended
AI_TOTAL_TIME_SLICE 15000 # (in milliseconds) if the total time in time in the ai player exceeds this its turn is ended
(These settings were increased by a factor of 5.)

I also tried to correct the Television improvement, which is unbalancing with its current settings. I changed it to give 3 gold per size, and to have 45 upkeep. This means that a city has to be size 15 before Television can turn a profit, and from then on it gives three gold per size.

Do you have a renaissance-era special-forces unit?

Considering the importance of mercenaries in renaissance Italy, I think a "Condottieri" unit would be a great idea. You could use the old Pikeman sprite (or the new one, and use the old one for Pikemen).

I do not think this will be a problem, but am asking anyhow.

Will it be possible to load maps that have been recently been created in the default CTP2 game (minus the goods) into MedMod2?

(BTW, for those who don't know it yet, I'm Wouter )