1) I can't see any way of introducing the lack of technical improvement idea
2) Diplomatically, it doesn't matter if everyone hates you if you have a supersize empire *IF* we haven't found a way to even out the game (see the other stuff at the top of the thread)
3) Slave revolts were and are a danger, however, the gain in production from the slaves ofsets the production cost of the garrison.

1) I can't see any way of introducing the lack of technical improvement idea
2) Diplomatically, it doesn't matter if everyone hates you if you have a supersize empire *IF* we haven't found a way to even out the game (see the other stuff at the top of the thread)
3) Slave revolts were and are a danger, however, the gain in production from the slaves ofsets the production cost of the garrison.

1) I can't see any way of introducing the lack of technical improvement idea
2) Diplomatically, it doesn't matter if everyone hates you if you have a supersize empire *IF* we haven't found a way to even out the game (see the other stuff at the top of the thread)
3) Slave revolts were and are a danger, however, the gain in production from the slaves ofsets the production cost of the garrison.

1) I can't see any way of introducing the lack of technical improvement idea
2) Diplomatically, it doesn't matter if everyone hates you if you have a supersize empire *IF* we haven't found a way to even out the game (see the other stuff at the top of the thread)
3) Slave revolts were and are a danger, however, the gain in production from the slaves ofsets the production cost of the garrison.

As far as the AI's reluctance to attack, I found in the strategies.txt that the goal for defense was higher than that for attack for all AI types. I have reversed this for militaristic types, and I may change it for other types later.
From what I can tell from ctp1, the AI will not attack if it can't build a stack more powerful than your stack, even if it has other stacks to throw at you. This will be something else to look at as we become more familiar with the game.

As far as the rich getting richer, I think it was Gedrin who set all wonders to give -1 happiness. I didn't try this in the med mod I, but I might try it in the med mod II.

As far as the AI's reluctance to attack, I found in the strategies.txt that the goal for defense was higher than that for attack for all AI types. I have reversed this for militaristic types, and I may change it for other types later.
From what I can tell from ctp1, the AI will not attack if it can't build a stack more powerful than your stack, even if it has other stacks to throw at you. This will be something else to look at as we become more familiar with the game.

As far as the rich getting richer, I think it was Gedrin who set all wonders to give -1 happiness. I didn't try this in the med mod I, but I might try it in the med mod II.

As far as the AI's reluctance to attack, I found in the strategies.txt that the goal for defense was higher than that for attack for all AI types. I have reversed this for militaristic types, and I may change it for other types later.
From what I can tell from ctp1, the AI will not attack if it can't build a stack more powerful than your stack, even if it has other stacks to throw at you. This will be something else to look at as we become more familiar with the game.

As far as the rich getting richer, I think it was Gedrin who set all wonders to give -1 happiness. I didn't try this in the med mod I, but I might try it in the med mod II.

As far as the AI's reluctance to attack, I found in the strategies.txt that the goal for defense was higher than that for attack for all AI types. I have reversed this for militaristic types, and I may change it for other types later.
From what I can tell from ctp1, the AI will not attack if it can't build a stack more powerful than your stack, even if it has other stacks to throw at you. This will be something else to look at as we become more familiar with the game.

As far as the rich getting richer, I think it was Gedrin who set all wonders to give -1 happiness. I didn't try this in the med mod I, but I might try it in the med mod II.

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 11-24-2000 04:24 AM Time to get down to business... Terrain & Tile Improvement Readme for the Medieval Pack II By Wes Whitaker Originally, ocean types were generally better than land types in overall value, which didn't seem right to me. Therefore, I have strengthened some of the land types, and weakened some of the ocean ones. A list of terrain types and their values is given in the Med chart's terrain sheet.  Placing Forests costs 400, instead of 800.  The defensive bonus of Hills has been raised from 50% to 75%. This puts them between Forests/Jungles and Mountains, which seems more realistic, imo.  Kelp and Reefs can have food improvements.  Drilling Platforms now increase production, not commerce, adding 20 production and 5 gold at a cost of 1,200. (The same cost and effect as advanced mines on Hills.) They may be built on Shallow Water, Kelp, Tundra and Swamp tiles.  Ports can only be built on beach tiles.  Fortifications give a +100% defense bonus.  Listening posts cost 500.  Airbases cost 600, and take 3 turns to complete.  Undersea tunnels costs 800 for shallow-water types, 1,200 for Deep Water, and 1,600 for Volcanoes and Rifts, due to the seismic instability of these last two terrains.  Tunnels cannot be built over Trenches. I am leaving alone the cost of food, production, commerce and movement improvements until I play the game some, and get feedback from people. (I thought putting drilling rigs on tundra and swamps was a moment of inspiration.) Here is a paste of the new terrain values from the Terrain sheet of the Med charts: Terrain Food-Prod-Gold Grassland 15----5---5 Plains ---10---10---5 Forest---- 5---15---5 Jungle--- 10---10---5 Desert---- 0---10---5 Swamp--- 5----5---5 Hill---------5---10---5 Sand Dune--0---10---5 Polar Hill---0---10---5 Mountain---0---15---5 Brown Mtn--0---15---5 Polar Mtn--0---15---5 Tundra-----5----5---0 Glacier----0----0---0 Beach-----10---0---10 Shallow---10---0---10 Shelf-----10---5---10 Trench-----5--10---10 Kelp------15---0---10 Reef------10---5---10 Deep Water10---0---10 Volcano---10--20---10 Rift-------5--20----5 Special1--15---5----5 Special2------------5 (God, I hate trying to post charts.) The biggest changes were to Forests, which only gave 5 production before (who decided that?), and to deserts, which I gave 10 production to (hey, if plains give 10...).

Last time i checked, real world deaserts only produced anthing of value when they had Oil under them, or a water source over them, (Dead Sea, Salt Lake. ect) it might be more realistic to alow all of the Terain inprovements on them.

(also you might want to see if you can put up a 3rd slot good on the list, that may increase the traidgoods density, although i suspect they were expecting folks to be trying for the 30+ pop Cities with wideley dispered cities)

quote: I eliminated the production from most sea terrains, and adding some gold to other types, since sea-faring nations were traditionally big traders as well. The new function of Drilling Rigs will help balance out the terrain in the later stages of the game, but something had to be done with the original setup. I mean, the AIs were founding cities on solid Glacier continents, and making large, productive cities simply becuase Beaches were the best un-improved terrain type in the game. It was ridiculus. They can still have large cities, I suppose, but now they will have to buy most anything they have in them. For Governements: 1)I set turns-to-readiness for all govt's to the Med mod I settings. 2)City limit for Monarchy reduced to 15. I want to play the game, and get some feedback before making major changes to gov'ts right now. Notes: People have complained about Fascism coming so early in the game. Well, it is much less powerful than it was in Ctp1, so it fits in with its current place in that regard. I figure I will insert CD's Fundamentalism gov't form into the game, and perhaps my Constitutional Monarchy, and move Fascism back to its historical place, with settings similar to what it had in Ctp1. Also, when I change strategies.txt to get the AIs to building more roads, I will probably raise the distance unhappiness modifiers like CD did as well, but keep the max unhappiness settings at their current lowered rate. This way if you discover a distant city from a ruin or something, it won't riot and be distroyed on the first turn, which often happened in ctp1.

quote: The next thing I will probably do is go through the strategies.txt, and alter some of the AI settings in it. The main thing I am going to do there is re-write the unit types defined in the game to match what I did with the Med mod I, since their are simply not enough categories once you get into the modern eras. By the time I get this done, we should have some concensous on what units to have in the game, and I will start into all of that. Next will be adding enough advances necessary to handle the units, and any wonders that we decide to add. Finally, we will get into slic functions, which will hopefully be a lot of fun. The four I know I want right now are: 1)Med mod I's militia triggers, 2)Wonder-enabled special units, 3)Gedrin's new Refugee trigger, which takes a portion of the population from a conquered city and spreads it among the remaining cities of the original owner, and

quote: 4)a yet-to-be-made unit repair trigger, which will sutract shields from your public works pile to pay for healing units to full strength in cities. If you can't pay for them, your units don't heal any more than they would out in the field. This will have a major impact on waging war, and go a long way towards making the game more realistic. The current practice of getting free repairs for spending the night in town sounds like something out of Dungeons and Dragons, and should have been addressed years ago.

you dont hang out with many Marines, do you? considering that early one a turn takes ~20 years, i Find it entirely plausible for a Military unit to er, "Replinish" itsself!

(joking) serisously though, i would think that having a slic code that takes out (say) 10-100 "new persons" from the population growth poolper hp needed to be replaced would be a bit more acurate(in theory,creating and disbanding a unit would alternalty take and return the pop to the cities, but the game should have been created to acount for that in the first place,but that is just my 2¢

quote: Btw, I need to come up with a name for this version of the mod, and you can help! Since I am a fan of both Babylon 5 and Star Trek, I am thinking about two possible names. 1)The Med mod II: In the Beginning Since we are starting from the beginning of the game, and this is the first version for Ctp2. 2)The Med mod II: The Next Generation Since Ctp2 is the next generation of the Ctp series, and this mod will be the next generation of the Med mod series.

MedModII is just fine

quote: Well, what do you think? [This message has been edited by WesW (edited November 24, 2000).]

I think its odd that Al Gore is trying soo hard to Become President during a >>>0<<< year election!
(for thoues of you not familiar with US history, IE the typical American), their is suposedly a Curse atached to being Elected President in a year that ends in 0, the only president that has survied the 0 curse, is Regan, Who was Shot by Hincly, then developed alshimers while in Office,(witch, incidentlay, Explains the entire last 3 years of the Regan prresidency)

Drakenred

nice job

nice job

I tried increasing GOAL_SEIGE priority ten-fold. It didn't help one bit (BTW, GOAL_ATTACK is probably not the right thing to modify because that controls how the AI attacks UNITS. GOAL_SEIGE seems to control the attacking of CITIES).

Regarding your comment on AI not attacking until it has a stack better than yours, I think that's not accurate (at least in CTP2 it seems). Lots of folks have commented how it throws 2/3 units at you. Also, it often has a strong army of 12 dispersed a few tiles from each other. It doesn't seem to be able to combine them. And if an attack force has to be transported across water, we can forget about that. The game doesn't have the intelligence to do that.

I believe the bigger problem is that while defense is easy (ExecuteIncrementally ), offense is hard
(RallyFirst ). And the latter piece of AI seems to be still-born in this game. I doubt you'll be able to improve that (For those who've not checked yet, the above flags are part of the aidata/goals file.)

But if you do, I'll be one happy camper

OK, I've spent the Thanksgiving break fretting over the game. Time to move on in life!

I tried increasing GOAL_SEIGE priority ten-fold. It didn't help one bit (BTW, GOAL_ATTACK is probably not the right thing to modify because that controls how the AI attacks UNITS. GOAL_SEIGE seems to control the attacking of CITIES).

Regarding your comment on AI not attacking until it has a stack better than yours, I think that's not accurate (at least in CTP2 it seems). Lots of folks have commented how it throws 2/3 units at you. Also, it often has a strong army of 12 dispersed a few tiles from each other. It doesn't seem to be able to combine them. And if an attack force has to be transported across water, we can forget about that. The game doesn't have the intelligence to do that.

I believe the bigger problem is that while defense is easy (ExecuteIncrementally ), offense is hard
(RallyFirst ). And the latter piece of AI seems to be still-born in this game. I doubt you'll be able to improve that (For those who've not checked yet, the above flags are part of the aidata/goals file.)

But if you do, I'll be one happy camper

OK, I've spent the Thanksgiving break fretting over the game. Time to move on in life!

I tried increasing GOAL_SEIGE priority ten-fold. It didn't help one bit (BTW, GOAL_ATTACK is probably not the right thing to modify because that controls how the AI attacks UNITS. GOAL_SEIGE seems to control the attacking of CITIES).

Regarding your comment on AI not attacking until it has a stack better than yours, I think that's not accurate (at least in CTP2 it seems). Lots of folks have commented how it throws 2/3 units at you. Also, it often has a strong army of 12 dispersed a few tiles from each other. It doesn't seem to be able to combine them. And if an attack force has to be transported across water, we can forget about that. The game doesn't have the intelligence to do that.

I believe the bigger problem is that while defense is easy (ExecuteIncrementally ), offense is hard
(RallyFirst ). And the latter piece of AI seems to be still-born in this game. I doubt you'll be able to improve that (For those who've not checked yet, the above flags are part of the aidata/goals file.)

But if you do, I'll be one happy camper

OK, I've spent the Thanksgiving break fretting over the game. Time to move on in life!

I tried increasing GOAL_SEIGE priority ten-fold. It didn't help one bit (BTW, GOAL_ATTACK is probably not the right thing to modify because that controls how the AI attacks UNITS. GOAL_SEIGE seems to control the attacking of CITIES).

Regarding your comment on AI not attacking until it has a stack better than yours, I think that's not accurate (at least in CTP2 it seems). Lots of folks have commented how it throws 2/3 units at you. Also, it often has a strong army of 12 dispersed a few tiles from each other. It doesn't seem to be able to combine them. And if an attack force has to be transported across water, we can forget about that. The game doesn't have the intelligence to do that.

I believe the bigger problem is that while defense is easy (ExecuteIncrementally ), offense is hard
(RallyFirst ). And the latter piece of AI seems to be still-born in this game. I doubt you'll be able to improve that (For those who've not checked yet, the above flags are part of the aidata/goals file.)

But if you do, I'll be one happy camper

OK, I've spent the Thanksgiving break fretting over the game. Time to move on in life!

Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants.

Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite...

The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them...

The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure.

Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants.

Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite...

The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them...

The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure.

Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants.

Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite...

The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them...

The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure.

Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants.

Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite...

The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them...

The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure.

I vote for 'In the Beginning' as BAB5 is a whole lot better than 'Star Trek' (Blasphemey to some, gospel truth to the enlightened)

Any way to include some more ancient civs (Hittite, Babylonian)

Move Fascism to Modern and replace it with Constitutional Monarchy.

How about adding some kind of government based on Medieval Islamic (variation of Theocracy), which would be a strong scientific/military Government, as opposed to gold production of Theo. Of course you'll need to include military from them too.

I really like the units you had for the MedMod, and with the longer timeline, they will be used in CTP2. In playing your Mod, I used just about every unit as it came available.

That refugee trigger sounds very good!

I have a question regarding the tile improvements, as it seems they have a less powerful impact on your city. Since workers work all the tiles around a city, is that improved tile's effect somewhat diffused? Darth made the point that a non-improved city grew at a close rate to an improved city. Any testing in this been done?

Is there any way to change the value of certain goods, based on the tech available? (Oil for example) I knnow this wasn't possible in CTP1, but I can hope, can I???

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-27-2000 06:29 AM Regarding the 12 stacks from the AI. When the AI is in defense mode, the offensive stacks are just at a lower priority. It still 'matches the target' just not as often. Why not duplicate the most offensive battleplan, over the top of the defensive one, and see how the AI reacts? Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants. Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite... The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them... The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure. I think we're in for some amount of playtesting to find really good balance.

I think you should be able to give the AI a happynes bonus to ofset that, although frankly i find the -1 hapyness bonus to be a bit odd.(the Real Wonders of the world were for the most part a souce of Pride in the empire in question)

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-27-2000 06:29 AM Regarding the 12 stacks from the AI. When the AI is in defense mode, the offensive stacks are just at a lower priority. It still 'matches the target' just not as often. Why not duplicate the most offensive battleplan, over the top of the defensive one, and see how the AI reacts? Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants. Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite... The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them... The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure. I think we're in for some amount of playtesting to find really good balance.

I think you should be able to give the AI a happynes bonus to ofset that, although frankly i find the -1 hapyness bonus to be a bit odd.(the Real Wonders of the world were for the most part a souce of Pride in the empire in question)

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-27-2000 06:29 AM Regarding the 12 stacks from the AI. When the AI is in defense mode, the offensive stacks are just at a lower priority. It still 'matches the target' just not as often. Why not duplicate the most offensive battleplan, over the top of the defensive one, and see how the AI reacts? Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants. Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite... The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them... The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure. I think we're in for some amount of playtesting to find really good balance.

I think you should be able to give the AI a happynes bonus to ofset that, although frankly i find the -1 hapyness bonus to be a bit odd.(the Real Wonders of the world were for the most part a souce of Pride in the empire in question)

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-27-2000 06:29 AM Regarding the 12 stacks from the AI. When the AI is in defense mode, the offensive stacks are just at a lower priority. It still 'matches the target' just not as often. Why not duplicate the most offensive battleplan, over the top of the defensive one, and see how the AI reacts? Also, you might want to set up a game with 3 civs, a biggish map, and just build and defend yourself, but let the AI get bigger than you. Use globesat I guess... Watch what happens when the AI can resource however it wants. Wes> Doesn't the lack of food requirements almost demand a need for lessening slaving. This sounds like an open invite... The -1 happiness is all well and good if the human is building wonders BUT... if the human ignores them, and lets the AI build them, theoretically the AI could run itself into the ground by building them... The human could just build the positive happiness ones, and the 'best of the rest' to be sure. I think we're in for some amount of playtesting to find really good balance.

I think you should be able to give the AI a happynes bonus to ofset that, although frankly i find the -1 hapyness bonus to be a bit odd.(the Real Wonders of the world were for the most part a souce of Pride in the empire in question)

late 19th century through first half of 20th century Africa - the European imperial powers race to divide the African continent for themselves

This would include African states who have a chance in fighting to keep their independence and perhaps change history.

late 19th century through first half of 20th century Africa - the European imperial powers race to divide the African continent for themselves

This would include African states who have a chance in fighting to keep their independence and perhaps change history.