You know if I spend enough time learning CtP2, by the time I am done, all the map work will be done.

On a more serious side, which of the Start Location options did you use on the cradle map. It would help in finding out what works and what doesn't work when creating map scenarios.

You know if I spend enough time learning CtP2, by the time I am done, all the map work will be done.

On a more serious side, which of the Start Location options did you use on the cradle map. It would help in finding out what works and what doesn't work when creating map scenarios.

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

It's been a very long time since I uttered those three letters. The bane of all enjoyment I ever hoped to glean from any civlike game I'd ever played. That evil, nauseating concept, which every single game designer I've ever encountered seemed to simply shirk off as a mythical, magical fairy-tale.

Well, I've fiddled with CtP2 for a few days now, and I have to say that I'm slightly impressed. While ICS is not eliminated, it's certainly hampered by the new resource design model. So I concur heartily in that respect; it's a great idea, and is a bold step toward eliminating ICS altogether.

Furthermore, since "specialization" of tiny cities early in the game is no longer a feasible option (i.e., thowing workers on high food tiles for population, then switching to production tiles to build units), pumping out massive amounts of settlers is no mere feat. So as a cumulative result, building a huge hairy horde of cities is additionally difficult.

Throw in the fact that it's a bit more difficult to advance in government, as well as the presence of more strict city totals per government type, and we're coming along nicely. Many of these concepts, in fact, are clearly derived directly from various mods that were made to try desperately to render CtP1 into an almost playable condition.

Suffice it to say, I tried to ICS, and failed -- and am pleasantly surprised by the fact. I of course intend to go back, learn the precise nicities of the radius production model, and go about attempting exploitation on the micromanagement level and see how that goes. But all in all, so far, things are looking much brighter.

On the ICS front, that is. Wall of Flesh still seems to be a problem. But one nightmare at a time, I suppose...

Go on.....

I'll support and irritate you (with words and posts) just as I use to do

Just - I can't playtest anything yet

I don't know when the game will come in the stores in Denmark - think I have to wait a couple of weeks yet

Omni

Omni

Go to the CTP forum >CTP-Creation and CTP-General, choose "Show topics from the last year".

Then you will see.

Wes, Morgoth, Harlan, Nordicus - I would not mention more, its unfair to whom I forget - but there were many-many more.

They made CTP to a game, that I would never sell or trash.

I play CIV II too, with patch 2.42 of course (the last free) - that will not be trashed either - due to the patches.

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-26-2000 02:45 PM what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you? another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"? if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

In answer to the first point, I believe that the AI is not agressive enough. There should probably be a ganging up on the human by most if not all of the AI's, and a more realistic model of trust and happiness, for maintaining Alliances, and getting AI's to agree.

The situation where the AI only agrees to stop trespass is only such an issue, because the player is almost the leader by default. There is no 'middle act' at the moment, and this desparately needs to be changed.

In answer to your second point, I've seen the AI virtually ICS in CtP1 (with medmod)... it remains to be seen how effective it can become in CtP2.

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-26-2000 02:45 PM what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you? another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"? if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

In answer to the first point, I believe that the AI is not agressive enough. There should probably be a ganging up on the human by most if not all of the AI's, and a more realistic model of trust and happiness, for maintaining Alliances, and getting AI's to agree.

The situation where the AI only agrees to stop trespass is only such an issue, because the player is almost the leader by default. There is no 'middle act' at the moment, and this desparately needs to be changed.

In answer to your second point, I've seen the AI virtually ICS in CtP1 (with medmod)... it remains to be seen how effective it can become in CtP2.

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-26-2000 02:45 PM what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you? another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"? if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

In answer to the first point, I believe that the AI is not agressive enough. There should probably be a ganging up on the human by most if not all of the AI's, and a more realistic model of trust and happiness, for maintaining Alliances, and getting AI's to agree.

The situation where the AI only agrees to stop trespass is only such an issue, because the player is almost the leader by default. There is no 'middle act' at the moment, and this desparately needs to be changed.

In answer to your second point, I've seen the AI virtually ICS in CtP1 (with medmod)... it remains to be seen how effective it can become in CtP2.

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-26-2000 02:45 PM what i have noticed is that generally the ai is not very aggresive. there is a question though: if you never provoke a big ai and often give him "presents", should he ignore all that and start a war against you? another question is: should each ai act as if it against everyone else(including the other ai's), or should all ai's be against you "underneath"? if the human wants a more challenging he just has to stop "cheating" through ics

In answer to the first point, I believe that the AI is not agressive enough. There should probably be a ganging up on the human by most if not all of the AI's, and a more realistic model of trust and happiness, for maintaining Alliances, and getting AI's to agree.

The situation where the AI only agrees to stop trespass is only such an issue, because the player is almost the leader by default. There is no 'middle act' at the moment, and this desparately needs to be changed.

In answer to your second point, I've seen the AI virtually ICS in CtP1 (with medmod)... it remains to be seen how effective it can become in CtP2.

Its interesting to hear you say that ICS is mitigated in CtP2. What I get from the player reports in general is that its far too easy to grow a city in whatever location is available, without the aid of TI's and improvements. TI's and improvements SHOULD be necessary to grow in less optimal spots, forcing players to resource new cities appropriately and stamp out the remnants of the curse of ICS.

Regarding Wall of Flesh, or Wall of Beef as it was in CtP1 , I think I have an idea of how to mitigate this, that I mentioned above. Make war much more expensive. I.E. You still CAN make war but do you WANT TO?

Less units doesn't mean less of a game; it will run quicker, and make the units that are there more important.

Its interesting to hear you say that ICS is mitigated in CtP2. What I get from the player reports in general is that its far too easy to grow a city in whatever location is available, without the aid of TI's and improvements. TI's and improvements SHOULD be necessary to grow in less optimal spots, forcing players to resource new cities appropriately and stamp out the remnants of the curse of ICS.

Regarding Wall of Flesh, or Wall of Beef as it was in CtP1 , I think I have an idea of how to mitigate this, that I mentioned above. Make war much more expensive. I.E. You still CAN make war but do you WANT TO?

Less units doesn't mean less of a game; it will run quicker, and make the units that are there more important.

Its interesting to hear you say that ICS is mitigated in CtP2. What I get from the player reports in general is that its far too easy to grow a city in whatever location is available, without the aid of TI's and improvements. TI's and improvements SHOULD be necessary to grow in less optimal spots, forcing players to resource new cities appropriately and stamp out the remnants of the curse of ICS.

Regarding Wall of Flesh, or Wall of Beef as it was in CtP1 , I think I have an idea of how to mitigate this, that I mentioned above. Make war much more expensive. I.E. You still CAN make war but do you WANT TO?

Less units doesn't mean less of a game; it will run quicker, and make the units that are there more important.

Its interesting to hear you say that ICS is mitigated in CtP2. What I get from the player reports in general is that its far too easy to grow a city in whatever location is available, without the aid of TI's and improvements. TI's and improvements SHOULD be necessary to grow in less optimal spots, forcing players to resource new cities appropriately and stamp out the remnants of the curse of ICS.

Regarding Wall of Flesh, or Wall of Beef as it was in CtP1 , I think I have an idea of how to mitigate this, that I mentioned above. Make war much more expensive. I.E. You still CAN make war but do you WANT TO?

Less units doesn't mean less of a game; it will run quicker, and make the units that are there more important.

I like all of your ideas mentioned above, and look forward to playing the mod.

As for Fascism, my main gripe was submachinegun-toting Fascist units appearing so early. I say move Fascism back to where it was in CtP1 (as you describe).

Another suggestion for Fascism: make it even more powerful, but include a random refugee trigger whereby a citizen would "escape" one of your cities and flee to another empire's city, every now and then...