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Topic: Upgrading the AI |  |
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Ganja
Chieftain
Jun 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 08:43
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Dale - are you posting version 3.0 at all ? And thanks for your work on this mod  |
Ganja
Chieftain
Jun 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 14:48
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Here's a question I hope someone can answer.
Is it possible to use the diplomod in the MedMod2 mod ?If so, how do I go about doing it? |
Ganja
Chieftain
Jun 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 14:48
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Here's a question I hope someone can answer.
Is it possible to use the diplomod in the MedMod2 mod ?If so, how do I go about doing it? |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 18:16
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Okay, thanks to a heap of emails and the comments here in the forums, I've been pressured back into finishing V3.0 Here's where it stands right now:
1 - The AI's will swap maps.
2 - The AI's will buy advances from each other.
3 - The code is in there (but the stupid internal programming of the game will never allow the AI to do it) for AI's to make peace-treatys, trade pacts and research pacts.
4 - The AI will use three different AI-Human diplomatic states (friendly, war and default) and a special AI-AI state (regard penalties don't hit so hard).
5 - The AI doesn't refuse everything by default (like in V2).
6 - The AI is more demanding of Human players (give me this, give me that, etc).
7 - I still need to code in withdraw troops and a couple of 'catch' commands. I left them out so I could test at this point. Eg. The AI can make proposals to people it hasn't even met. 
8 - Refining and bug catching also need to be done. So I'm not that far off a Beta V3.0 Is there anyone who would like to beta-test for me? If so, email me and I'll send you the mod when it's ready for testing. Thanks guys for your support.
Dale - dale.kent@mel.alphawest.com.au ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 18:16
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Okay, thanks to a heap of emails and the comments here in the forums, I've been pressured back into finishing V3.0 Here's where it stands right now:
1 - The AI's will swap maps.
2 - The AI's will buy advances from each other.
3 - The code is in there (but the stupid internal programming of the game will never allow the AI to do it) for AI's to make peace-treatys, trade pacts and research pacts.
4 - The AI will use three different AI-Human diplomatic states (friendly, war and default) and a special AI-AI state (regard penalties don't hit so hard).
5 - The AI doesn't refuse everything by default (like in V2).
6 - The AI is more demanding of Human players (give me this, give me that, etc).
7 - I still need to code in withdraw troops and a couple of 'catch' commands. I left them out so I could test at this point. Eg. The AI can make proposals to people it hasn't even met.
8 - Refining and bug catching also need to be done. So I'm not that far off a Beta V3.0 Is there anyone who would like to beta-test for me? If so, email me and I'll send you the mod when it's ready for testing. Thanks guys for your support.
Dale - dale.kent@mel.alphawest.com.au ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ganja on 01-22-2001 02:48 PM
Here's a question I hope someone can answer.
Is it possible to use the diplomod in the MedMod2 mod ?If so, how do I go about doing it?
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I'm sure Wes and his gang will want to look at Diplomod to see if they can implement in future Med Mod. As for the current Med Mod out there, I don't know if it can be implemented.
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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ganja on 01-22-2001 02:48 PM
Here's a question I hope someone can answer.
Is it possible to use the diplomod in the MedMod2 mod ?If so, how do I go about doing it?
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I'm sure Wes and his gang will want to look at Diplomod to see if they can implement in future Med Mod. As for the current Med Mod out there, I don't know if it can be implemented.
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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
ASHBERY76
Settler
ENGLAND
Jan 2001
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posted January 22, 2001 19:00
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I cant understand why activision stopped treatys by a.i.s it sucks big time.So there will never be a.i treatys what a let down. |
ASHBERY76
Settler
ENGLAND
Jan 2001
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posted January 22, 2001 19:00
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I cant understand why activision stopped treatys by a.i.s it sucks big time.So there will never be a.i treatys what a let down. |
WesW
apolyton.net/wes
Huntsville, Al., USA
b.02-15-99
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posted January 22, 2001 19:17
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Dale, your mod sounds great. As you develop your mod, it would be a big help to everyone, yourself included, if you would try and keep track of which changes had which effects on the ai. I know that this can be quite difficult when dealing with diplomacy, but anything we can learn will help our efforts.I look forward to using any progress you make with the text files in the Med mod, and perhaps the slic parts as well, eventually. I will probably wait until the other slic parts of the Med mod are in place first, though. |
WesW
apolyton.net/wes
Huntsville, Al., USA
b.02-15-99
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posted January 22, 2001 19:17
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Dale, your mod sounds great. As you develop your mod, it would be a big help to everyone, yourself included, if you would try and keep track of which changes had which effects on the ai. I know that this can be quite difficult when dealing with diplomacy, but anything we can learn will help our efforts.I look forward to using any progress you make with the text files in the Med mod, and perhaps the slic parts as well, eventually. I will probably wait until the other slic parts of the Med mod are in place first, though. |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 19:48
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Good idea. I'd get a well-rounded AI first before trying anything with diplomacy. I've got a history file in my mod that tracks changes and what they do. Does this cover it? If not I should be able to come up with something more detailed. Though a lot of my experimentations have ended in CTP2 crashing severely or hardware locking. Don't ask me how, but it can hardware lock on ya.  ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 22, 2001 19:48
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Good idea. I'd get a well-rounded AI first before trying anything with diplomacy. I've got a history file in my mod that tracks changes and what they do. Does this cover it? If not I should be able to come up with something more detailed. Though a lot of my experimentations have ended in CTP2 crashing severely or hardware locking. Don't ask me how, but it can hardware lock on ya. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
thanatos.tod
Settler
Germany
Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 16:06
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as i said in the sec/mod forum, u made the AI somewhat too diplomatic |
thanatos.tod
Settler
Germany
Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 16:06
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as i said in the sec/mod forum, u made the AI somewhat too diplomatic |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 23, 2001 18:22
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I've found the cause of all my crashes in the patched CTP2. It was occuring within the exchange advance for gold section. It appears that the bug within the diplomacy causes a program crash with my mod. I had to disable it and got no crashes after testing for over an hour (used to get a crash on average every five minutes of gameplay). I'll try to find a workaround, but I doubt I'll get anything to work properly. In the meantine, I'll have a beta of V3.0 ready tomorrow, and will email to the couple of replys I've had. If you want to help me test the diplomacy, let me know.BTW, I've toned down (read that as refined ) the acceptance levels so that you can't just get everything from the AI. I'll try to get a proper withdraw troops going so the AI actually does retreat instead of fortifying in your territory. This (I hope) should also help the AI's in reaching their limitation of a turn-limit without troops in another AI's territory before requesting/accepting agreements. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 23, 2001 18:22
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I've found the cause of all my crashes in the patched CTP2. It was occuring within the exchange advance for gold section. It appears that the bug within the diplomacy causes a program crash with my mod. I had to disable it and got no crashes after testing for over an hour (used to get a crash on average every five minutes of gameplay). I'll try to find a workaround, but I doubt I'll get anything to work properly. In the meantine, I'll have a beta of V3.0 ready tomorrow, and will email to the couple of replys I've had. If you want to help me test the diplomacy, let me know.BTW, I've toned down (read that as refined ) the acceptance levels so that you can't just get everything from the AI. I'll try to get a proper withdraw troops going so the AI actually does retreat instead of fortifying in your territory. This (I hope) should also help the AI's in reaching their limitation of a turn-limit without troops in another AI's territory before requesting/accepting agreements. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
kormer
Chieftain
Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 22:01
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Dale, I had to take your mod out of my scenario for it to work. I kept getting an error, diplomod:39 array index 1 out of bounds. Might want to check that one out, I think that was the variable for # of players in a game, and since I have more than 8 it might create a problem somewhere. |
kormer
Chieftain
Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 22:01
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Dale, I had to take your mod out of my scenario for it to work. I kept getting an error, diplomod:39 array index 1 out of bounds. Might want to check that one out, I think that was the variable for # of players in a game, and since I have more than 8 it might create a problem somewhere. |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 23, 2001 22:25
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Kormer, yeah I know of that one. V3.0 covers that bug. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 23, 2001 22:25
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Kormer, yeah I know of that one. V3.0 covers that bug. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
kormer
Chieftain
Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 23:35
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Odd, I wonder why it was working for me before. Oh well, guess it had to do with my other problems of the slic coding not working at all. Make sure to include my name on the list getting version 3.0 tomorrow. |
kormer
Chieftain
Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 23:35
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Odd, I wonder why it was working for me before. Oh well, guess it had to do with my other problems of the slic coding not working at all. Make sure to include my name on the list getting version 3.0 tomorrow. |
John Barbarossa
Warlord
Halifax, England.
b.02-15-99
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posted January 30, 2001 13:22
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Huge pat on the back to you Dale. I always admired those mod designers for the old Civ 2, but their work was as nothing compared to the challenge of getting CTP2 to behave more realistically. You are to be praised for the mere attempt, but the fact you have pulled it off to such wide aclaim is to your great credit. Thanks.On to my (probably silly) question. If you make the science pact a part of the peace treaty (great idea btw, much more realistic) will it not mean that the science bug that gives the AI a new advance every turn or two be exaserbated?
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John Barbarossa
Warlord
Halifax, England.
b.02-15-99
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posted January 30, 2001 13:22
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Huge pat on the back to you Dale. I always admired those mod designers for the old Civ 2, but their work was as nothing compared to the challenge of getting CTP2 to behave more realistically. You are to be praised for the mere attempt, but the fact you have pulled it off to such wide aclaim is to your great credit. Thanks.On to my (probably silly) question. If you make the science pact a part of the peace treaty (great idea btw, much more realistic) will it not mean that the science bug that gives the AI a new advance every turn or two be exaserbated?
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Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 30, 2001 18:04
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John, thanks. You got me all embarrased now.  As to your research question:
The research bug is unfortunately inherited into the diplo script due to the fact it's internal to CTP2.EXE. This is the same for the advance-for-gold bug. Sorry folks. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 30, 2001 18:04
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John, thanks. You got me all embarrased now. As to your research question:
The research bug is unfortunately inherited into the diplo script due to the fact it's internal to CTP2.EXE. This is the same for the advance-for-gold bug. Sorry folks. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
OmniGod
ACS CtP2 Database Manager
Philadelphia, PA, USA --> Really Canadian
Dec 1999
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posted January 30, 2001 23:16
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It is me or am I just a really evil person. No matter when I ask for an exchange of even the basics (ie maps) the AI say nope, not going to happen. If I'm the big guy, or the guy in dead last (which is lengthening in each game with frenzy and diplomod) they're not interested. The one thing that is great now is that when I say leave and give them a little something they'll leave and not come back for at least 10 turns, which is more than enough to beef up security. The other thing I noticed occurs only when the AI has a city right on my border is they are much more willing to give that city (but no other one) to keep the peace, even if I'm not strong just have maybe 3 units in the vicinity. This has never happened to me. I'd like to finish (yea it seems like and essay to me) with a hearty congrats to Dale... this has so improved the game and made it that much tougher even on Impossible or as my game now says DEITY That was like the first thing that I did, heck with the game, I want the old familiar titles  I love this mod and combine it with frenzy and activision doesn't hold a candle to you guys... nice job.Rich - one day they'll give me their maps again, one day |
OmniGod
ACS CtP2 Database Manager
Philadelphia, PA, USA --> Really Canadian
Dec 1999
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posted January 30, 2001 23:16
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It is me or am I just a really evil person. No matter when I ask for an exchange of even the basics (ie maps) the AI say nope, not going to happen. If I'm the big guy, or the guy in dead last (which is lengthening in each game with frenzy and diplomod) they're not interested. The one thing that is great now is that when I say leave and give them a little something they'll leave and not come back for at least 10 turns, which is more than enough to beef up security. The other thing I noticed occurs only when the AI has a city right on my border is they are much more willing to give that city (but no other one) to keep the peace, even if I'm not strong just have maybe 3 units in the vicinity. This has never happened to me. I'd like to finish (yea it seems like and essay to me) with a hearty congrats to Dale... this has so improved the game and made it that much tougher even on Impossible or as my game now says DEITY That was like the first thing that I did, heck with the game, I want the old familiar titles I love this mod and combine it with frenzy and activision doesn't hold a candle to you guys... nice job.Rich - one day they'll give me their maps again, one day |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 31, 2001 16:58
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Rich thanks, but I'm gunna be even more evil than you.  V3.2 (which I'll send across now) will make it a little harder to get their maps. I've always thought it was too easy for a human player to get maps from an AI, even in previous civ-type games. Now there's only a 1% chance you'll get it. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! BTW, how on earth did ya change the title to DEITY? I WANT IT! ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 31, 2001 16:58
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Rich thanks, but I'm gunna be even more evil than you. V3.2 (which I'll send across now) will make it a little harder to get their maps. I've always thought it was too easy for a human player to get maps from an AI, even in previous civ-type games. Now there's only a 1% chance you'll get it. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! BTW, how on earth did ya change the title to DEITY? I WANT IT! ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Kull
Clash of Civilizations
Diplomacy & Web Editor
El Paso, TX USA
Mar 99
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posted February 01, 2001 01:35
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As you guys pursue your various mods, keep in mind that the ultimate potential of CTP2 is still totally unknown. Those of us who poke around in the bowels of the ancient civ2 engine are still finding new ways to tweak the game. As an example, recent discoveries include:1) Barbarian Wrath: A setting which creates Barbarian Hordes of between 80 and 100 units.
2) Amphibious units: A setting which allows units to travel on both land and sea.
3) Giga-maps: Maps 3 times larger than the supposed "upper limit".
4) Simultaneous Multiplayer: A setting which transforms Civ2 from turn-based to simultaneous move.
5) Life after Death: Events which allow two units to engage in combat, at the end of which neither unit is dead. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Think big, think different, but above all never say never! Note to John Barbarossa: Praising Einstein is OK, but one doesn't have to denigrate the work of Archimedes in the process. |
Kull
Clash of Civilizations
Diplomacy & Web Editor
El Paso, TX USA
Mar 99
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posted February 01, 2001 01:35
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As you guys pursue your various mods, keep in mind that the ultimate potential of CTP2 is still totally unknown. Those of us who poke around in the bowels of the ancient civ2 engine are still finding new ways to tweak the game. As an example, recent discoveries include:1) Barbarian Wrath: A setting which creates Barbarian Hordes of between 80 and 100 units.
2) Amphibious units: A setting which allows units to travel on both land and sea.
3) Giga-maps: Maps 3 times larger than the supposed "upper limit".
4) Simultaneous Multiplayer: A setting which transforms Civ2 from turn-based to simultaneous move.
5) Life after Death: Events which allow two units to engage in combat, at the end of which neither unit is dead. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Think big, think different, but above all never say never! Note to John Barbarossa: Praising Einstein is OK, but one doesn't have to denigrate the work of Archimedes in the process. |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted February 01, 2001 16:27
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Don't worry, I'm an Aussie. We always think bigger than we should. All I need now is an idea for the AI. Anyone? Anyone?  ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted February 01, 2001 16:27
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Don't worry, I'm an Aussie. We always think bigger than we should. All I need now is an idea for the AI. Anyone? Anyone? ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
John Barbarossa
Warlord
Halifax, England.
b.02-15-99
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posted February 08, 2001 12:44
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Kull,
That IS big news on the Civ2 front, especially the gigamaps which make me wonder how a giga-Europe might look.As for denigrating C2 mod efforts, it is important to realise that their efforts were only viewed unfavourably compared to the greater effort of ridding the underachieving and user-unfriendly CTP2 (although the type of differances in the game you discussed may take similar depths of advanced technical knowledge - I don't know). Without any point of reference, I would like to make it clear that C2 modifiers added 12 months onto the life of C2 for me and my circle of friends (prior to the multi-player version) without ever asking me for a penny. As I seem to be in the business of handing out pats on the back, I hope you and your fellow C2 modifyers will accept one as well Lots of games receive fan support, but Civ, in all it's incarnations, has attracted some of the most intelligent and generous people to it over the years. Regards
John
[This message has been edited by John Barbarossa (edited February 08, 2001).] |
John Barbarossa
Warlord
Halifax, England.
b.02-15-99
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posted February 08, 2001 12:44
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Kull,
That IS big news on the Civ2 front, especially the gigamaps which make me wonder how a giga-Europe might look.As for denigrating C2 mod efforts, it is important to realise that their efforts were only viewed unfavourably compared to the greater effort of ridding the underachieving and user-unfriendly CTP2 (although the type of differances in the game you discussed may take similar depths of advanced technical knowledge - I don't know). Without any point of reference, I would like to make it clear that C2 modifiers added 12 months onto the life of C2 for me and my circle of friends (prior to the multi-player version) without ever asking me for a penny. As I seem to be in the business of handing out pats on the back, I hope you and your fellow C2 modifyers will accept one as well Lots of games receive fan support, but Civ, in all it's incarnations, has attracted some of the most intelligent and generous people to it over the years. Regards
John
[This message has been edited by John Barbarossa (edited February 08, 2001).] |
John Barbarossa
Warlord
Halifax, England.
b.02-15-99
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posted February 08, 2001 12:49
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Dale,Any chance of a version that disables automatic science and trade pacts when makng a peace treaty with the AI? With the apppalling bugs embedded into the main exe that give your new ally an unfair advantage in the tech market, I fear your (more realistic) interpretation of peace treaties may be being undermined by Activision. As there is no simple way of ending a trade and science pact in-game without upsetting your AI 'friend' in other ways, perhaps this is a step to far for the Diplomod? If there is no consensus for such a change, perhaps you could tell a CTP mod-novice how to make the changes myself? Thanks
John
[This message has been edited by John Barbarossa (edited February 08, 2001).]
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John Barbarossa
Warlord
Halifax, England.
b.02-15-99
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posted February 08, 2001 12:49
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Dale,Any chance of a version that disables automatic science and trade pacts when makng a peace treaty with the AI? With the apppalling bugs embedded into the main exe that give your new ally an unfair advantage in the tech market, I fear your (more realistic) interpretation of peace treaties may be being undermined by Activision. As there is no simple way of ending a trade and science pact in-game without upsetting your AI 'friend' in other ways, perhaps this is a step to far for the Diplomod? If there is no consensus for such a change, perhaps you could tell a CTP mod-novice how to make the changes myself? Thanks
John
[This message has been edited by John Barbarossa (edited February 08, 2001).]
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Dale
Prince
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted February 08, 2001 16:57
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John:
As far as I knew peace treaties don't give you any other agreements. I know the icons don't show up on the intelligence screen, but I may be wrong. Great, now I'm all confused........ ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
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