quote: Originally posted by Steve5304 on 02-17-2001 03:27 PM Dale whats the big idea with the "Nader" Personality.Please Explain this one and why isnt there a Bush/Gore personality?

The writing team for CTP2 were liberal-minded...you can tell it if you read through the great library...why do I know? As they say, it takes one to know one.

be curious as to results. i've tried similar things with cost, but not the other options you've added, will add them in and play again.

quote: Originally posted by JSnider on 02-05-2001 06:57 PM have you tried removing great wall wonder to see if it changes barb behavior??? if you are correct and this is our of the game then have barb uber alles, or such. jsnider

Same wolf different username....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I just came up with that theory late last night and havent had time to test play it. First I want to see what happens if I let the AI build the Wall.

- Name change to Diplomod 2.1.
- Made it generic, should work with any other mods, not just frenzy AI.
- Supports frenzy AI 1.02 (just a little change of the script is needed)
- Cleaner and meaner.

- Name change to Diplomod 2.1.
- Made it generic, should work with any other mods, not just frenzy AI.
- Supports frenzy AI 1.02 (just a little change of the script is needed)
- Cleaner and meaner.

As I always feared, the AI doesnt understand city size limits. Some small cities had aquaducts because they were on the growth strategy. Some of the military and science civs NEEDED them but wouldnt build them. in my game, I had also lowered the % of AI specialists to 10%, and had lowered the specialist from 30 to 20. I'm going to have to relook at that and make their largest cities dedicate more scientists and factory workers since they are all working the land, but not growing, so in essence those workers are wasted. I may have to strategically add all the city limit increasers to every build list so no matter what the AI is playing it wont neglect city growth limits. Under the Gold strategy, i notice that freight is second on the list, this is way too high as I've noticed that some civs change trades routes almost every turn and never seem to be lacking the caravans needed to do so. That means they wasted alot of prod building those caravans which just sit waiting to be used. Anyone ever notice any kind of caravan limit in any file?

Edit: I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

Edit: I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

I remember this being an issue in the MedMod for CTP1. Wes added mines to be built in forests, but the AI seemed incapable of building them.

There's a tile impovement build list in the default game that only has the basic elements; Farm, Mine and so forth. Shouldn't that list be filled out with all of the tile improvements? I was looking at that list earlier, and it seem a little thin. I believe that there weren't even any of the Net improvememts on that list, but the AI seemed to have no trouble building nets so I didn't do anything with it.

And with the edit you made to the BuildingBuildList.txt file is there any other file you need to edit so the AI will use that sequence? (Dumb question, I'm sure, but I'm still learning...)

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 02-06-2001 11:30 AM I've noticed that the AI did not place a high priority on building Trading Posts. I normally build a lot of them, so I do well economically. Adding a production boost only helps me out further. I remember this being an issue in the MedMod for CTP1. Wes added mines to be built in forests, but the AI seemed incapable of building them.

That'll be a major downer if thats still true. I'll test it tonight (i hope).

quote: There's a tile impovement build list in the default game that only has the basic elements; Farm, Mine and so forth. Shouldn't that list be filled out with all of the tile improvements? I was looking at that list earlier, and it seem a little thin. I believe that there weren't even any of the Net improvememts on that list, but the AI seemed to have no trouble building nets so I didn't do anything with it.

I thought the lack of nets was strange too. Got me to thinking whether tile improvements might be hard coded into the program.

quote: And with the edit you made to the BuildingBuildList.txt file is there any other file you need to edit so the AI will use that sequence? (Dumb question, I'm sure, but I'm still learning...)

I havent had a chance to play since I made the changes but it loads ok so it should be just those files.

BTW, no such thing as a dumb question if you learned something useful

On a new note, you might need to lower the war discontent. I had to build a fairly good sized army to defend against the barbs, and all my cities were extremely unhappy about it. Aint that typical, ya build an army to protect them and they complain...ungrateful cretins I'm assuming that the AI is similiarly afflicted.

The new design for your website is substantially better.

The new design for your website is substantially better.

I tried to link up to your site, but its not active anymore.

Got a favor to ask. Could you send me the files that you altered for the trading post fix.(or did you just enter trading posts into the BuildImprovement list - if so, then don't bother. The boost for production is an easy enough fix - as long as I can get the AI to use them I will make that boost too.

And the BuildingBuildList file for the City Improvement sequence (or at least the entry) I want to make sure I have the verbage correct.

I would guess that the lists work in descending order, as the more advancesd stuff is at the bottom of the lists, so placing trading posts before mines might make the AI bypass building them to build mines instead.

Would you also be interested in taking on the challenge of boosting the AI for my Cradle Mod. I have been implementing stuff as I see it on the forums, and your tips have been very good. This mod is currently being playtested, with generally good reports, but it definitely needs tweaking in some areas. As I see it, you have a wealth of practical knowledge with your experimenting, and a look at my files would be much appreciated, to catch some changes that definitely need to be made.

My initial goal has been to implement improvements outside of Slic (as I have no ability in that area)

I have sent version 1.02 to OmniGods website, and can email you the text files to look at too, if you are interested.

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 02-07-2001 09:52 AM I tried to link up to your site, but its not active anymore.

I was one of those that had something happen to my account the other night, and it was pointing to the wrong place (notice my new settler status ) I'm trying to get the link to work again but so far no luck.

quote: Got a favor to ask. Could you send me the files that you altered for the trading post fix.(or did you just enter trading posts into the BuildImprovement list - if so, then don't bother. The boost for production is an easy enough fix - as long as I can get the AI to use them I will make that boost too. And the BuildingBuildList file for the City Improvement sequence (or at least the entry) I want to make sure I have the verbage correct.

ImprovementList:
IMPROVEMENT_LIST_PRODUCTION {
Improvement TILEIMP_TRADING_POST ## JAW
Improvement TILEIMP_MINES
}
-----------------------
BuildingBuildList.txt:
add 1 to the number at the start of the file.

BUILDING_BUILD_LIST_START {
Building IMPROVE_CITY_WALLS
Building IMPROVE_GRANARY
Building IMPROVE_BAZAAR
Building IMPROVE_ACADEMY
Building IMPROVE_MILL
Building IMPROVE_FACTORY
}

quote: Would you also be interested in taking on the challenge of boosting the AI for my Cradle Mod. I have been implementing stuff as I see it on the forums, and your tips have been very good. This mod is currently being playtested, with generally good reports, but it definitely needs tweaking in some areas. As I see it, you have a wealth of practical knowledge with your experimenting, and a look at my files would be much appreciated, to catch some changes that definitely need to be made.

I'll gladly take a look at them, but it wont be until next week as this weekend I go to get firsthand knowledge of barbarians, i mean cheeseheads, ooops, I mean Wisconsinites

quote: My initial goal has been to implement improvements outside of Slic (as I have no ability in that area)

I dont blame you on this. Every attempt of mine to code SLIC fails on my PC even tho I've been assured the same code works on other machines.

BTW, expect v2.3 (maybe v3.0 if I re-write the lot) after the weekend. I'm starting to code the full AI diplo-handling routines. In previous versions I left it to the program to handle the considerations, but now I've got the mod-skeleton I'm going to add them in.

The AI diplo-handling routines will be the ones that look at the current position and force a proposal/response based on that analysis.

EG. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmm, nice border-city. I'll extort that." Player[a] sends player[b] a request_give_city. Player[b] looks at the proposal and says "Hang on a second, he receives THIS bonus, and I receive THIS bonus. My bonus is less so I'll counter-request." Player[b] sends player[a] a counter-request for GOLD equalling value of CITY. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmmm...... I don't have much gold left so NO SALE!" and refuses counter-proposal. BTW, I got this routine running. It seemed like the easiest to do. Obviously, if player[b] receives a 'gift' proposal it's gunna say "Cool! Free stuff!" and accept.

BTW, expect v2.3 (maybe v3.0 if I re-write the lot) after the weekend. I'm starting to code the full AI diplo-handling routines. In previous versions I left it to the program to handle the considerations, but now I've got the mod-skeleton I'm going to add them in.

The AI diplo-handling routines will be the ones that look at the current position and force a proposal/response based on that analysis.

EG. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmm, nice border-city. I'll extort that." Player[a] sends player[b] a request_give_city. Player[b] looks at the proposal and says "Hang on a second, he receives THIS bonus, and I receive THIS bonus. My bonus is less so I'll counter-request." Player[b] sends player[a] a counter-request for GOLD equalling value of CITY. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmmm...... I don't have much gold left so NO SALE!" and refuses counter-proposal. BTW, I got this routine running. It seemed like the easiest to do. Obviously, if player[b] receives a 'gift' proposal it's gunna say "Cool! Free stuff!" and accept.

quote: Originally posted by Dale on 01-15-2001 07:59 PM I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

Could you please let us know the bugfix for this i.e. where we need to replace the "consider" statement with the "change" statement ? I feel I can change this on my own in the 2.2 version (so no publishing of the bugfix version necessary) but I would need to know where....

quote: Originally posted by Dale on 01-15-2001 07:59 PM I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

Could you please let us know the bugfix for this i.e. where we need to replace the "consider" statement with the "change" statement ? I feel I can change this on my own in the 2.2 version (so no publishing of the bugfix version necessary) but I would need to know where....

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 02-08-2001 09:53 AM Thanks - Make sure you read the posts about the Mod to get an idea what is happening.

Will do

In SMAC you could cripple the AI by giving faction A a city of yours that is about to be overrun by faction B. Faction B is going to take that city, even if they are allied with faction A. You could keep doing this and always keep everyone fighting.

If it is possible, I would suggest that the AI consider the diplomatic status outcome for accepting a free city. If the sender is at war with a faction that shares a border with the gift city, then the AI should probably turn down the free city offer.

In SMAC you could cripple the AI by giving faction A a city of yours that is about to be overrun by faction B. Faction B is going to take that city, even if they are allied with faction A. You could keep doing this and always keep everyone fighting.

If it is possible, I would suggest that the AI consider the diplomatic status outcome for accepting a free city. If the sender is at war with a faction that shares a border with the gift city, then the AI should probably turn down the free city offer.

The AI wasn't changing it's diplomatic strategy. It considered it but didn't change it. Therefore, in the 'BeginTurn' routine you need to change all the ConsiderDiplomaticState's to ChangeDiplomaticState.

Kinjiru:

At lunch I drew up some flowcharts to map the flow of diplomatic proposals and what to check (on paper of course). Pity I got beetroot juice all over it. Anyways, I thought of just that problem you mentioned. I figure it could be overcome if CityToExtort is within 10 squares of OwnCity which would make the city a border-city. That way, at least it has a fighting chance of getting defense there quickly. If you take into account the reality of supply problems, you don't want to accept a city that is too far from your borders, or on another island totally. I think this simple measure could simulate that. Any suggestions anyone?

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

The AI wasn't changing it's diplomatic strategy. It considered it but didn't change it. Therefore, in the 'BeginTurn' routine you need to change all the ConsiderDiplomaticState's to ChangeDiplomaticState.

Kinjiru:

At lunch I drew up some flowcharts to map the flow of diplomatic proposals and what to check (on paper of course). Pity I got beetroot juice all over it. Anyways, I thought of just that problem you mentioned. I figure it could be overcome if CityToExtort is within 10 squares of OwnCity which would make the city a border-city. That way, at least it has a fighting chance of getting defense there quickly. If you take into account the reality of supply problems, you don't want to accept a city that is too far from your borders, or on another island totally. I think this simple measure could simulate that. Any suggestions anyone?

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

I have followed the slic and non-slic AI improvments and have toyed myself. One of the main complaints I see repeatedly is that the human player makes gains and eventually "turns the corner" in the 1st century or so and then the game is boring. I have not seemed to encounter this. If fact, if anyone is "turning the corner" it is the AI that is wiping me off the planet.

Here are examples of setting in DiffDB from Alpha.

Beginner=
# % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
AI_MAX_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.7 0.7 0.8 0.8 0.9

Impossible=
# % amount to multiply production cost by per age for ai
AI_MIN_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.7 ## JAW
AI_MAX_BEHIND_PRODUCTION_COST_ADJUSTMENT 0.25 0.3 0.35 0.4 0.5 ## JAW

Obviously, smaller numbers benefit the AI as seen between "Beginner" and "Impossible" levels.

The same logic goes for the scaled bonuses over the ages. So why is everyone scaling the values to DECREASE the AI's bonuses as the game progresses. The reason the AI is falling behind is because the human is gaining while the scaled bonuses for the AI are DECREASING!

I have scaled my bonuses in the DiffDB as well, but in the REVERSE direction. My AI gets TOUGHER as the game goes on, making "Impossible" level live up to it's name.

Has this been covered before? Am I missing something?

quote: Originally posted by Dale on 01-16-2001 09:32 PM Therefore, in the 'BeginTurn' routine you need to change all the ConsiderDiplomaticState's to ChangeDiplomaticState.

Thanks a lot, Dale! I did exactly that (in the 'BeginTurn' routine, changed from 'ConsiderDiplomaticState to ChangeDiplomaticState in total 3 times), however still I can get each and every city I request from others (independent from the tonality of my request).

Did I miss something ?