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Topic: space race with minimum cities-strategies- |  |
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geofelt
b.02-15-99
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posted February 22, 1999 22:58
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catullus started another thread about this, and I tried some games. It turns out to be a fun and challenging way to play civ. At chieftan, one city is not too hard, and one at prince can be done. One at king is possible, but hard, I think.(haven't done it yet) At deity, any nymber is hard, but with a fair starting position, I did it with three cities. This type of game is fun because it goes quickly. You are pitting your management skills against the brute power of the AI. The wonders you build will change. If you find a tribe in a goodie hut, you must disband or lose it asap. If you need to capture a city that overlaps yours, you must disband it. The AI likes to do this, and it will really hurt to have overlap by a rival at the end.
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As to strategy, build a science city, starting with colossus. At the end, each city must produce a net of 80 shields. If the terrain does not permit this, you must terraform.(there is likely to be time to do this) Stay out of war, and build defenses that will keep the AI out of yout city perimeter.
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catullus
b.02-15-99
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posted February 23, 1999 02:31
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Hail to you, geo!
I'm really impressed.
Now, what were the game settings? (map size, opponents, barbarians, land mass, form and age). What opponents did you get? How did the map look like (never really like you expect from settings), all grass and hills? How many continents? What was your trade strategy? I have this terrible feeling that my own trade strategy can be improved a lot.
C.
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Adam Smith
b.02-15-99
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posted February 23, 1999 10:46
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Congratulations, Geofelt.
I usually play with 10 cities and go for an early finish, but I cant wait to try it with fewer, especially if the game goes fast.
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DanS
b.02-15-99
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posted February 24, 1999 19:41
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geofelt: I too have done it with 3 cities on a small map (quite interesting), but maybe I ought to ratchet up the size of the map to see if I get slaughtered.
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geofelt
b.02-15-99
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posted February 25, 1999 02:00
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Talking about the deity game, I used a small map with 7 civs and minimal barbarians. A key item is the defensibility of your patch. You would like mountains in a bottleneck, but of course you don't know for a while. As maps get smaller, you get mountains for defense, and there is less room for rivals to grow. I started with colossus, and built the science wonders. If I had nothing productive to do, I built tons of food caravans to use at the end. I used these to surround my cities to keep the AI from stealing techs at the end. I build the great wall, it seemed the only way to keep from having to fight wars. I had an open area where a city could be built to overlap mine, so I camped a diplomat there; it seemed to work. I wish I had an exact table of space ship requirements and speed. I built three modules four each components and 21 structuals. taking 13.7 years with fusion. I built seti to kep it away from the ai, and gl was essential. I set up foreign trade routes to the science city, and three routes each in the other two. I built university in only the science city. It seems strange to not worry about missing hoover dam, but I built mass transit, factory, recycling. I delayed researching space flight as long as possible, then rushed solar plants and built mfg plants. Each city produced 85-120 shields. I built defenses(sam,MI's, a fighter) before starting apollo program. During the space race, you can't divert production to fight the inevitable war. Early on, I sent a dip and a caravan to each civ to establish an embassy. I stayed in monarchy most of the time. The science was ok, and support was minimal. After recycling was built I boosted the population in democracy so that each square was in production. Many mixed terrain types will work, but the key is to figure out how to wall out the other civs. You can't have them walking over your productive squares and getting production below 80.
I would be interested in other experiences.
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 01, 1999 19:53
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After reading the threads... I had to try it with one city at Deity... It was rough, but after 4 tries... BINGO!The ship landed in 2015 (Three years before the Zulus)
Small World
Restless tribes
Resetting Civs
7 Civs
Everything else normal Space ship was 15 structures
3 fuels/prop
One of each Module Nine Wonders
Hanging Gardens (nothing else to build, but it helped early)
Shakespeare's Theatre - most important one.. no happiness problems ever
Coperinicus's and Isaac Newton - you got to have these, or plan on stealing science till you are blue in the face.
Workshop - it helped
United Nations - key, but they all attack anyway
Darwin's - it was there
Great Library - gave me the little ones
And had to had Apollo. Until the end, my entire military was NON...
Bribed every unit I could. I didn't want to waste production.
I had a good choke point to hold everybody else. Didn't fight early at all... Made friends and demanded tribute from everybody. It worked for a long time. Then the gravy train ended. After that, it was barb kings. I only built 2 caravans, and bribed one.. to get my three trade routes. Built diplos and spies like crazy.
It was fun...
Now to try it on a medium world. IT CAN BE DONE!
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Bird
b.02-15-99
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posted March 02, 1999 10:25
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Ming: Congratulations. That is incredibly impressive. I assume you were able to find a good spot to settle pretty quickly. Also, based on your first three attempts, was there a consistent obstacle to success that must be avoided, or did it vary depending on the circumstances?
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 02, 1999 10:44
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Bad starting positions was indeed the limiting factor. I did use the goody hut strategy while searching for a GREAT city location. If you are only going to have one... IT BETTER BE GOOD! One of the games I had a great starting position right from the start. But, no source of revenue made it difficult to stay with the AI's. In the game I did it in, I had lots of huts before finally starting my city. So, with the non units, I was supreme early. I used that to demand tribute early and often. Many of the wonders I just bought. When the gravy train ended (it's tough to stay supreme when you only have one city) I started to slow down, but had a big enough science lead to go for the win. Superconductor was the key. If the Zulus had gotten it before the year 2000, I would never have been able to beat them. Once they got it, their ship launched the next turn, with an 8.3 year eta. My ship was already gone, and just barely beat them.
I really like playing it on a small world. So even though I said I'm going to try a medium world... I won't. I want to see how fast it can be done a small world. I wasted a ton of time in the mid game. Now I know what I'm doing.
It was fun and different. Highly recommended if you are bored. They don't take very long.
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geofelt
b.02-15-99
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posted March 02, 1999 18:16
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Congratulations Ming!! I have been having trouble with one city at emperor, I guell I'll have to try harder.
A couple of questions:
No collossus?
What government? early republic?
How did you stay peaceful without the great wall? Did being supreme with NON units do it?
How many moves did you spend before founding the city?
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 02, 1999 18:54
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Geofelt...
Monarchy and straight to Democracy. I never left Democracy after that.
Colossus was a thought only (it expires far to early), given the choice, hanging gardens worked better for me. My city was growing fast. I'll probably take colossus next time... depending on the situation.
I didn't build my first city until about 3600...
I wanted to make sure it was a good location, and I started in the middle of a four pattern of goody huts.
Being supreme early made the great wall a waste of time. I just built city walls for a lot less time. People wanted to be my friend.. and I started on the left edge of the board. The Zulus were screaning me from the rest of the world, and they became the killer civ. The Zulus and I fought off and on with no real losses... I had a good choke point. I hope that answers your questions.
I'm going to try again, and I really doubt the same strategy will work, unless I have a similar starting position. As they say, play the cards you are dealt.
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geofelt
b.02-15-99
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posted March 03, 1999 02:06
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I tried again at emperor, landing in 2012. I'll try deity next. It's like the four minute mile, once it's been done, the second time should be easier.
I used collossus/gl/krc/copernicus/Isaac-newton/UN/apollo. I am not certain UN was that helpful.
I went to republic and stayed there. It seems as good as democracy, and you get there earlier. KRC let me use oceans to get the science.
I did not have the best position. One end was open for settlement, so I positioned some spare dips there, and it seemed to work.
I did not find enough units to become supreme. Is there a trick to doing that?
I also had enough spare food caravans to surround my city and prevent theft of space science. --an essential tactic if you don't have a good way to choke off everything. It's funny to see a dozen spies trying to get to the city. I was concerned about them bribing a caravan to get in, but they never tried.
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catullus
b.02-15-99
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posted March 03, 1999 03:18
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I bow my head in respect, Ming.
Never thought it would be possible.Couple of points:
Having both Colossus and HG will yield 3 trade from each road under monarchy for a a long time. And Col does NOT expire early.
Workshop? Isn't that a bit expensive for a minimal army? Of course, upgrading NONE units (and especially the important NONE settler) can be done no other way.
UN: I did well without when I played 5 cities. Keeping the army at exactly right size, you're not seen as a threat, nor an easy piece of meat.
GL: Interesting. How many techs did you get? In my 5-city game, I always was way ahead, so I doubt it would have been worth the price.
No KRC? Why? Seems like a good deal for 1-city games.
Do you remember when you started to build the ship? I used one hundred years in a 1-city chieftain game. But that ship was larger than yours. I realized afterwards that a smaller and slower ship would have been faster overall from Apollo to planetfall. C.
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Makeo
b.02-15-99
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posted March 03, 1999 04:35
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I'm trying it right now. My thoughts at this stage are that my main goals are construction, medicine, sewer system, Democracy. I've built GL and have got lots of tech. I'm at the stage just before Railroad and am still no. 1 in science although falling fast. My caravans keep getting killed. I don't know if I'll do it on this try as my city site isn't that good.
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 03, 1999 07:57
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As I said, it depends on the situation. My next try, I will see if Col and KRC make a big difference. You must understand that I had a high level of cash flow early in the game thanks to Tribute. I was buying wonders... As far as finding enough units... as I said, I started in a 4 pattern. Got a horse, archer, $25, and one science. Once you have seen 4, you know the pattern. My horse was off to the races... and I found many units. And Yes, The workshop is key for upgrading units if you don't want to have build any. I bribed one settler and with my second starting settler, that gave me 2 engineers late in the game to solve polution. Every turn, I got polution, every turn, two engineers removed it.
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Adam Smith
b.02-15-99
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posted March 03, 1999 09:26
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Catullus, Ming:
The worth Great Library might depend on the situation. With five cities, you could probably build enough trade caravans to stay ahead, and so might not need GL. With just one city you probably couldnt build enough trade caravans, so GL would be much more valuable.Questions:
When you site your one city, is it worth having ocean access so you can trade, or do you really need every square you can get for production?
Anybody interested in posting their one city games somewhere on this site?
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 03, 1999 10:47
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I can't see a situation where the GL wouldn't be worth it. Again.. I was always researching the highest science available (if they beat you to superconducter, it's all over) I didn't have time for the little sciences. The nice thing about AI's is, that they trade like crazy. They don't stop trading like what happens in MP. I got tons of the little sciences through GL. I consider it one of the key wonders... that and the theater for happiness.
I built near the ocean (but only had access to an inner sea) The early trade was key. I didn't worry about production at first. So I would recommend starting near ocean. On a small world, you shouldn't need ships. My ships were all bribed from barbarians or ai's. But that might be a problem on a midsized world. Contact with other civs was key to my economy.
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geofelt
b.02-15-99
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posted March 05, 1999 01:41
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Ming; Would you post in a new thread your approach to tribute? I know you need to be supreme, and I find that hard to be in a one city game. Exactly what does it take to be supreme? Also, Do you repeatedly ask every turn, or do you wait? When does tribute start to become non-effective? Which civs do you pick on?
Also, could you post exactly how to recognise the hut pattern?
In the space race, I seem to build the 15 structual, 3,3 component and 1,1,1 module unit taking 15.7 years with fusion. The next faster ship with 4,4 components takes only two years less, and since it takes two turns to build two components it is not worth it. How many structuals does it take for a 2,2 component ship, and how long does it take?
I had not thought of using two engineers every turn to clean up pollution. I had been building mass transit/recycling/solar plants.
The thought also occurred to me that these engineers could also ruin the terrain for AI city sites nearby. They could transform by mining any grassland or plains squares that could harbor an annoying competing city. As far as I know, the AI will not build on anything but plains or grassland.
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Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted March 05, 1999 04:28
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After several tries I was successful last night. Here's my experience.Small world, raging hordes, 7 civs, no restarting of eliminated civs. Three special resources: buffalo, gold and a whale. The wonders: Colossus, GL, Copernicus' Observatory, Shakespeare's Theatre, INC, UN and the Apollo Program. Strangely enough the GL wasn't as useful as it was in my earlier tries. The city only produced about 50 shields (no manufacturing plant), so it was really tough to build the space ship. In the end I had to disband all units (but two) and rush buy the last structurals. I bought the last 4 or 5 from scratch as I wanted one unit in Rome and one in a choking point. I sold off some improvements and raised taxes to 100% after discovering fusion power to raise cash. With 80 shields (or more), it obviously would have been a lot easier. The ship was 15-3-3-1-1-1 and took 15.7 years. Arrived to AC 2017. None of the other civs started building their ships so it was a race against the time limit. I had a diplomat and some defensive units in a fortress on a mountain. This really helped against my Northern neighbour, the Mongols. I had a few NONE units from goody huts, but when I bought Mongolian units using the dip in the fortress they were attached to Rome which was too close. I also built a couple of modern units to upgrade the defense in the fortress. The city was on a river and had city walls. I only kept a NONE veteran horseman in it. At one point I thought it was all over. Four barbarian dragoons landed by sea and immediately attacked the city. The strength bar of the horsie didn't even move! The city improvements (not in the order I built them): temple (sold off after ST), library, marketplace, factory, hydro plant, university, superhighways, city walls, aqueduct, sewer system, mass transit. All I can remember right now. I stayed in monarchy until I discovered democracy. Grew the city by we love the president days to size 20. On the wonders: even though GL didn't help as much as in earlier tries I think it's difficult without it. In another try I didn't have UN and was killed in the 1980s by a former ally. The Theatre was very useful. After launching the ship I started cranking out military units. I was sneak attacked by the Mongols and barely had enough units to fight off the first wave. It was fun. I don't think it's possible to launch a ship with less than 3 components. I did some testing, the last figure is the probability of success: 15-3-3-1-1-1, 15.7 years, 100%
15-3-4-1-1-1, 16.4 years, ?
15-4-3-1-1-1, 16.4 years, 99%
15-4-4-1-1-1, 17.1 years, 98%
16-4-4-1-1-1, 17.3 years, 98%
17-4-4-1-1-1, 13.2 years, 100% (NB!)
18-5-5-1-1-1, 14.4 years, 100%
19-5-5-1-1-1, 14.6 years, 100%
20-5-5-1-1-1, 14.7 years, 100%
21-5-5-1-1-1, 10.0 years, 100% (NB!) I think 15-3-3-1-1-1 is the best choice, too many extra turns to get the flight time down. Sorry for the long post! Carolus
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Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted March 05, 1999 04:54
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More info on the same game.I only had one settler, cleaning up pollution took forever. Of course it wasn't enough to cause global warming, but more importantly the reduction in the productivity of the polluted squares wasn't critical. I built a few freights for disbanding purposes, but didn't trade actively. Instead, AI civs kept sending caravans and freights to me. With superhighways the three trade routes yielded 15-16 arrows each. No bonuses though. In another try I cranked out food freights every turn, had about 30 or 40 of them. Don't know how useful they would have been as I was killed before the space race. I used geofelt's tip, positioning a spare diplomat in an area preventing the AI civs to overlap. Raging hordes was a good source of income. Carolus
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 05, 1999 11:25
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Congratulations Carolus Rex... I hope you had as much fun doing it as I did. The games go quick, and they are a riot.
The key to building an army is to have a diplo (well protected by military) close to your city, but closer to another civ. They march their troops up to check you out, and they become your non units. You can also probably snag a settler this way, so you have two available to clean up polution later (it really helps)
You strategy and play sounds very similar to my run at it. Sell everything and buy your spaceship before they get super conductor.
And I love the fun that begins when you launch your space craft. I built tons of cruise missiles (one a turn) and just hit anything that came at me.
Geofelt... I've done tribute before. But here is a quick summary. And this is how I started my one city run. Use the goody hut starting strategy... Don't lay down your first city until you find a GREAT spot. In the process hit every goody hut you can. To learn the pattern... created a custom map with all land. LOOK AT THE PATTERN... THERE IS ONE... Once you find a few huts, you can guess where more are (assuming there is land)
Early in the game, the original non units should get as far away from you city as possible, so any more military you get from huts will probably be non attached because other civs are closer. Search the world.
The military you get will keep you supreme for a long time. Don't ask for tribute every turn... give them a chance to get some more money. If they have a science you don't have, they will give that to you first. If they declare war, who cares, wait a few turns, and they will want peace, and they will pay you for that too.
So that's the short version... this post is long enough now.
Happy Hunting!
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted March 07, 1999 12:37
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I'm trying it now and i've beat the money problem, and if you beat the money problem, you can concentrate on science. You do not need to be supreme to demand tribute. I'm am currently inadaquate and i'm raking in 1000 to 2000 dollars every 5-7 turns. If you have enought science and units on the board you can continue to demand tribute. While one civ may not cooperate, most do. If you have money, you can bribe the biggest army. And the secret is.......build SOL and UN. If you have money you can build them all just to keep the ai's from getting them. It's fun watching them build 300 shield settlers. I let them build pyramid since it helps them get money for me to demand, and i let them build mc and jsb. I let them have the cheap ones too. Using UN, just watch when they start building up money(every 5 to 7 turns) then when they get enough just drop into anarchy at the end of your turn and demand away. at the begining of the next turn you're back in demo. I got 2500 in one pass. You lose the science for that turn, but if you have shakes, you can keep your science at 100% the rest of the time and make up for it. When i finish, i'll post my landing year. It doesn't make it automatic, but man does it help. I'm stockpilling spys to help so i can disband one for each spaceship part and buy the rest. This should speed things up considerably. So what wonders do you like, buy them all. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
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GP
b.02-15-99
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posted March 07, 1999 16:16
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Did it in chieftan. Pretty easy. Tried in diety and got crushed by an invasion.I noticed in chieftan that I can bribe units with no war starting. i thought they declared war for this...
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Theben
b.02-15-99
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posted March 07, 1999 22:18
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I've been on a SMAC high lately but this thread made me come back down. :) I started the 1 city game earlier this morning, and although I don't think I'll win, it's been a LOT of fun trying. Here's my run:Diety, small world, raging hordes, normal land,random results of continents, arid, 3 or 4 billion years. wonders: colossus, great library, MPE, sheakspeare's, Rick's crusade, Isaac's school, ASTC, Darwin's, SOL, Hoover Colossus, GL, KRC, Theatre ,all definite must-have's. Tried for Copernicus but the Carthaginians beat me to it. The rest pretty much so others wouldn't get 'em. I didn't find a starting place until about 3250-turns out there really weren't any great ones. This one had 2 whales and was easily defendable; the city could only be approached from 2 directions and one side was covered by the Vikings. I had also hilled/fortressed 1 square on each side of my city for defense. Before I founded my capital I found about 5-6 "non" units and demanded tribute successfully for several turns. KRC was a big help, w/rr's and a size 22 city I was producing 40 shields before industrialization. The big fun was when the Carthaginians took a nearby Chinese city (size 1) and started to approach me. I killed 3 units on the shore with a dreadnought, then landed a veteran spy and bought the city. I then discovered how huge the enemy army aroung me was. 192 gold purchased a size 1 city and 12 army units! I used the army to finish off the rest of the enemy forces around me; w/ bribes I destroyed 21 enemy units that round! I managed to get 6 units back to my capital before disbanding the city. Then these units + 2 others went and took Carthage, splitting them into civil war. I would love to know exactly how much damage that one spy action caused them, heh heh heh. Maybe that's why spies are too tough? :) Are we allowed to do anything with enemies cities that are captured besides attempting to disband them? Build defensive units, walls, until we can disband them w/o fearing reconquest?
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geofelt
b.02-15-99
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posted March 07, 1999 22:47
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There are no official rules, but in my mind, you should not profit any more than necessary from acquired cities. If a hut produces a city, start the steps to disband it or have it captured. This case can't be helped.
If a city enroaches on your full territory, it seems reasonable that you should be allowed to get rid of it any way you can. As soon as possible, you should disband the city. Selling improvements and reassigning any units is OK.
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Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 07:17
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Thanks Ming,This has gotten me really hooked again, I've been trying all weekend to repeat it (still on a small map) WITHOUT SUCCESS. IT DRIVES ME CRAZY!!! In 30 or 40 started games I either wandered around until 2500 BC without finding The Starting Position (and I quit) or ended up killed by aggressive neighbours or losed the space race. Two obvious notes on the city location. It has to be well defended and arrow rich. In games were I had one but not the other I was either crushed or lagged in science. Preferably mountains (nearby, not within the city radius unless there's gold) or hills in bottlenecks for defense. In my only successful try I had this to my north/north east and could block off the evil Mongols. To the west of Rome it was fairly open land, but it was unsettled until very late in the game. This provided a lot of gold as there was several barbarian uprisings in the area. Also, when contacted by minor civs threatened by stronger neighbours I took a gamble accepting money for declaring war on the aggressor. This happened twice and I got away with it both times. I didn't demand tribute a lot in that game. On the wonders: In normal games I always want Marco Polo's Embassy rather than the GL, haven't tried it with one city yet. Maybe it's a better choice? In some games one AI civ conquered all the others. Then I went for the Hoover Dam instead of a single hydro plant out of fear (not really!) of being outproduced. They killed me instead. This has been the rule evry time I choose not to build the UN. A good enough defensive position (and/or major kissing up) possibly compensates not having the UN. I like ST and the ability to lower the luxuries' rate after we love the president days without causing unhappiness. Haven't tried without any of the science wonders, but I think it is very difficult without them. But then again I never thought it would be possible to win the space race with only one city, so... I have to correct myself on the number of components needed to launch the space ship. In one of my other tries the Romans (AI civ) launched a 18-1-1-1-1-1 fusion powered ship, estimated flight time 37.6 years. Here are some more alternatives, probability of success is last. All are fusionpowered. 15-2-2-1-1-1, 21.0 years, 94%
16-2-2-1-1-1, 21.3 years, 94%
17-2-2-1-1-1, 21.6 years, 94% It continues up to 22-2-2-1-1-1 without improving things (22.9 years, 93%) and then I stopped. So by building two components less you increase flight time with six years and lower the probability of success to 94%. Depending on how long it takes to build two more components and your risk aversion, 15-2-2-1-1-1 might be worthwhile. Final question: Am I the only one that build military units? I have diplos out scouting for bribable units early on, but sometimes they cost to much or the diplos are expelled. Also, late in the game bribing gets very expensive and without Leo's you have to get a couple of modern units somehow. Carolus
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 09:12
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Well, the stategy worked great, the ship is launched and due to land around 1953. I really think I could have launched earlier but I was having way to much fun attacking people. Laying back in a defensive position is the best way to lose. Create some mountain defense positions in your opponents territory to keep them busy. A mountain square (just outside a city zone) with an engineer, spy, defensive unit and an offensive unit keeps them real busy. When I started building the spaceship, I couldn't demand anymore, but by alternating being at war and making peace, I still was able to get 10000 more dollars out of them. Built my spaceship in 24 turns. A good combo was disband a food caravan (25) and my city was cranking 65. Structures every turn without spending money. I also build hoover to keep them from getting it. (seti too). Of course, I had so much money I built almost everything except pyr. mc mp jsb col kr et man(of course) I'm defending with rifles, they haven't built armor or bomobers yet. I'm building stealth fighters and cruise mis. to defend waiting for landing.
My army up to launch consisted of around 50 (none) units. I did have 2 frigates that i bribed from barbs that were attached to rome, but once my diplos got out to see, those frigates weren't needed any more. My city was cranking over 1050 science a turn.
Have fun. Find a good starting position that can be defended.
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Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 09:26
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On AI overlap (which annoys the hell out of me, especially in these games). I don't want to run the risk of starting a war against a strong AI civ simply because a puny size 2 city covers some of my terrain squares. Preventive measusres à la geofelt is what I have been using, i.e. having dips in potential AI city locations. It often doesn't take more than two. Carolus
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Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 09:51
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rah,Your post really hurts my ego:-) How the heck is it possible to land 1953 with only one city? You built your space ship in 24 turns, I take it you built every part of it in one turn? So it probably was 15-3-3-1-1-1 and took 15.7 years, implying a launch 1938. I haven't built SETI or a research lab in any of my tries, though. Had my city produced 80 shields or more I could probably have sliced off, say, 15-20 years from 2017 but that's it. Carolus
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 11:08
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I've been talking to Rah on the phone... talk about ego busting... But, the good news is, the record should fall. He started with no sciences, and started his city in a forest. So by using his tactics, the record should fall by about 20 years. Scarey thought! I will give it a couple more tries, because I can't stand Rah beating me at anything. I had never though about using SOL to drop back into anarchy for a turn so I could continue demanding tribute far longer than usual. With money no longer be an issue... 100% science should really help in the mid game. Your record will fall Rah. Count on it!
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 12:03
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Yes the record will fall, starting in a forest with no science really slowed me down. Anyone that can get into monarchy quicker should be able to knock 20 years off mine. I'm guessing Ming will do it by 1935. The only reason I took that start was because besides the forest, I had wine,silk,spice and pheasant in range. And it was in a river basin. And most important there were two huts in sight that produced chariots. (helps considerable) It was also very defendable. I never let the ai's get closer than 10 squares to it. Until the snapshot from space came back, they never knew were I was. Good luck all of you (except for Ming of course) I wasn't planning on trying it again, but maybe I will to do once more to make it harder on Ming. It only took a couple of days. (and all this assumes that the ai's can't eliminate before 1953 (ten years left)
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 12:16
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And just as a salve for those egos out there. Please remember, between Ming and I, we have many many years of experience with Civ. I used every legit cheat, including airports on hills, Reassinging bribed caravans to my capital, etc. But most important, I played over 200 starts between 0 and 30 turns before I found one I wanted to try it with. Patience will prevail.
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Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 13:32
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AHA!Airbase on hills, there we have it:) Mind you, I didn't use them. I think any experienced deity player can do it, it's a matter of psychology and practice. I was 100% certain that it was impossible until Ming posted his successful attempt. It tore down my mental barrier, before that I wouldn't even have tried. In fact, I had trouble trying to win the space race with anything less than seven cities. Still, I can't do it consistently yet (see the post above), i.e. regardless of starting position. Speaking of starting positions. I also tried more times than I can remember and quit most of them due to bad terrain. Someone please enlighten me! Is there a way to start a new game without quitting the game first? I'm either stupid or blind or both, but I can't do it. There has to be some way! Restarting the game and having to go through all the settings each time from scratch is a killer (even when pressing enter). Carolus
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 13:44
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Get a faster machine. From quit to new world generated for me is only about 8 seconds. Your hand does get sore from hitting the enter key. At least it remembers your selection.
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Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted March 08, 1999 14:12
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Rah... I'm appalled! You actually used the airfield on a mountain trick, and you reassigned caravans. Well! What kind of record is that? He he he... I'm sure both of those tricks must have cut 50 years off a legitimate run. So maybe we should just add those to your time and call it 2003 instead.I just want to announce that I would never use those sleazy tricks. (actually, the opportunity never presented itself) My record will be clean! (Unless the opportunity does present itself)
As long as you aren't resetting huts, resetting combat or peaking... what the heck.
Your tainted record will still fall. JK
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geofelt
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 1999 02:26
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I finally did it on deity! launched a 15/3,3/1,1,1F ship in 1984, landing in 1999.
The starting position was nothing special, with one whale and coal, along with a few grassland rivers and some ocean. It was on a peninsula of sorts. I used some dips stationed a few squares away in likely city spots to keep the sioux at bay. Late in the game, raging horde barbarians landed, and I sent the dips scuttling back to the city. I forgot to move them back, right away, and found a sioux city established. A key, I think was an early alliance with the sioux(I normally never do alliances). I asked and got gifts(mostly gold). I found a number of huts, but only two units, and one of them got wasted by a surprise encounter with barbarians.
I built colossus/copernicus/isaac newton, and the essential shakespeare's. I got beat out on great-library, but built marco-polo instead. It might have turned out just as well. I later built UN and got peace with everyone.
The key was staying peaceful and out of wars. I think the AI tries to build a city one square away just to aggravate you. If this happens, the AI gets very pushy. Keeping the AI from building such cities seems essential.
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 1999 10:26
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Congrats geofelt, well done. I originally thought it was impossible and I thought people were making it up when they talked about it, but once I thought it could be done, It became possible.(gee a life lesson)
I always set my defensive perimiter a little farther out if terrain permits, so noone ever gets close to my capital. I still think wars are good. The ai is stupid and you can get them to expend a lot of their production capacity to waste as they attack fortified units in fortresses in mountains. You can also keep them from expanding at will or protect weaker civs. You can't have one civ conquer half the world or you're in trouble, unless it's one that doesn't do science. And you can't make money offering peace if you never go to war. And my final on war, it's fun and gives you something creative to do during the middle game. I still haven't finished my last ten turns yet. I was thinking of eliminating a few civs if I can to add to the amusement.
RAH
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Theben
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 1999 18:53
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I'm close to winning my 1st game w/one city. My city site is beautiful. A flat grassland/plain completely ringed by hills and mountains, with a river running along the city's outside edge. Only two specials, but I hilled 3 river squares and flattened 3 regular hills(that runoff from my mines is gold, baby!). I have 7 fortesses with 1 each of my best defenders + 1 spy in them, except the one facing the Japanese which has 2 DEF units. I was producing 55 shields/turn before industrialization! Observations from the field:
At 1st I thought a island world would help you win, but I now think a single continent is better. You have to have a military presence on the same land mass to threaten people, and you will meet them quicker, allowing you to get their money before they can spend any. Must have port: At 1st I thought so; now I'm not so sure. This game I don't have a port. Also don't have to worry about Lighthouse, Magellan's, building harbor/platform, or marauding ironclads. wonders:
Colossus-Effectively doubles your science for many, many years. Must have if you don't get GL early.
MPE-If you can't explore and people are not coming to you, or surrounded by hostiles. If you have a port maybe not so necessary.
Copernicus/Issac Newton-complete the science city. You'll need it.
Hanging Gardens-Makes getting "we luv you" days much easier. Helpful to early growth, but not necessary.
Sheakespeare's/King Richard's-YOU MUST HAVE THESE! Get KRC ASAP since the sooner you get it the more shields you will generate in the long run. Sheakespeare's allows lux to be set to zero, or automatic "we luv you" days in repub/demo. Don't forget to sell that unnecessary temple.
Leonardo's-Very useful since you don't have time to rebuild units.
GL-Helpful but not as much as I thought since by the time I can devote sufficient resources to build it it's halfway to obsolesence.
Darwins'-If you have lots of trade(you better) quite nice to get 2 techs fast. Max the tax and buy it in 3-4 turns.
Apollo-If you don't build it you're not going to win. Although if somone else is building it but doesn't have all the techs to build a ship consider letting them finish while you build caravans to help build spaceship parts.
U.N.-Useful to stay in peace in end game.
Lighthouse/Magellan's/Oracle/eiffel-All useless. Don't bother. Distances in small world are still close, and oracle just doesn't last long enough to get it even to keep from the enemy.
All others-Useful only to keep the enemy from having them, although pyramids and Hoover are especially so. For SOL, if you have Sheakespeare's, go to Democracy and stay there. Otherwise it could be helpful. Most important: Try to kill off one civ if you can. Then try your best to keep all other civs in balance towards each other. This is important, and why being on the same continent is helpful. If one civ is too tough send an expeditionary force to take their capital and trigger a civil war. Bribe them to fight each other constantly. Keep people fighting the one who is looking the toughest(also a good reason to get Marco's). Well, does this mesh with other people's tactics?
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Theben
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 1999 19:01
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How about 1 city MP game? Who's up for that?
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted March 10, 1999 22:57
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Just finished. 1953 it was. The last ten years when fast, enter enter enter enter etc. My continued harassment of them must have worked. There great assualt to take my capital after I launched was feeble. They were so far behind in science I never saw artillary or planes from them. It was so boring, that I went back and replayed the ten turns to use all of my defensive troops to launch an assault. In those ten turns I captured 5 of the 7 Babylonean cities including their capital. 4 out of 9 of the greeks cities. (I didn't bribe the cities either, those were the two civs that annoyed me the most during the game, payback's a bit**.) The only interesting part of this is that once I left my protective shell and owned cities where they could get spys at them, within 4 turns over 40 spys from all the civs deluged these cities to steal techs, then all the exchanges and they were all building spaceships the next turn. It was hilarious. Now all that's left to wait for is when Ming will post that he beat it. I know he will.
I would like to thank everyone that contributed to this thread because it encouraged me to do it. RAH PS. For the real diehards, the next challange should be that after you launch, you have to conquer the entire world before it lands.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no one could do that because it's impossible. (but wait, we thought one city was impossible. hmmmmmmmm)
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Makeo
b.02-15-99
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posted March 11, 1999 02:33
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A 1 city MP game would be great fun. I'm in.
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