- AIs given 2-4 well-sited cities in 4000 BC
- Human/AI interaction disabled (no techs or gold from the AIs)
- AI/AI interaction disabled (no war between AIs, no tech trading)
- no goody huts
- no wonders
- deity/raging
- large (or giga?) map

Yes I would be interested! Giga if enough agree!

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Sounds like an interesting idea Dave!

* edit *

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 01-16-2001 10:38 PM ... we could start further away from the AI ... on AC perhaps - and play the game backwards? ---------- SG(2)

LOL!

But all seriousness aside, if we started on an island in an isolated position, I fear we would never be able to build up the army initially to contend with the AI. Then again, with a totally random start, we could end up in that predicament anyway. Eh bien, c'est la vie, n'est-ce pas?

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Scouse Git[1]

SG2
John-SJ
kcbob
Julius?
DaveV

The map: is a squarish flat gigamap - completely random although I added a few land bridges and removed a few inland lakes so as to abide by the <64 of each rule.

Your civ: is the 'Tories' conventional two Settler start near a juicy four special if you choose to use it.

The bad guys: the rest of the central column, they don't like you much and have each been given some totally unfair advantage. You will, I hope, find the Mongols and French particularly challenging militaristically. Meanwhile, the Aztecs and Chinese will be beavering away for AC. By the time you get to the Zulus and the Russians they too should prove challenging.

I regret the scenario is untested and so might prove to be a complete kitten, but I don't think so.

Scenario now sent to SG(2)

Good civin',

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Scouse Git[1]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 01-17-2001 10:43 AM SG2 John-SJ kcbob Julius? DaveV

Yes, count me on it for this one.

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 01-18-2001 10:14 PM Ten turns is proving to be a long time on the other giga map game

Yes, indeed. But the OCC one took less than one week. Got to figure why !

Julius you will be pleased to know we beat the OCC record for playing time ......

4000BC - We have started with 891 gold! Chariot from hut
3950BC - Warrior Code from hut! ; Finchley founded on the four special site.
3900BC - 1st research goal is Alphabet; Grantham founded
3750BC - Alphabet from hut
3700BC - Researching CB
3650BC - 50g hut : Barracks built at Finchley.
3600BC - Mongols arrive! (receptive) Look a SPY!! Peace with the Very Nice Mongols who refused the offer of an alliance. Legion from hut. Mongols are most powerful civ - we are weakest, with an atrocious reputation. Mongols are in Fundy.
3550BC - Another three spies spotted.
3500BC - Mongols bribe Grantham - 292g lost! They are now engraged war!
3450BC - Mongols sabotage barracks
3400BC - Another spy entered Finchley - production sabotaged!
3350BC - Ceremonial Burial discovered! Caught a glimpse of a submarine! Have put in Writing (for diplo) as next research!
3300BC - Mongol horsemen destroy Finchley. Long video/GAME OVER!!!!!!!!

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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 01-18-2001 06:12 PM The bad guys: the rest of the central column, they don't like you much and have each been given some totally unfair advantage. You will, I hope, find the Mongols and French particularly challenging militaristically.

Yeah, I'd say the Mongols were fairly challenging!

John-SJ

Take two?

Margaret Thatcher, Tory Leader, had a nightmare one cold evening in 4000BC. She dreamt about the log posted above. What impossible odds! But great leaders overcome such minor obstacles. With the words of the soothsayer kcbob ringing in her ears about "Take two?" she set about her business.

Her dream had pointed to the importance of acquiring Writing quickly. The opportunity of having diplomats to bribe a few advanced units seemed crucial. There was some gold in the Treasury, but was there enough time to avoid the annihilation promised in her sleep?

The first hut yielded a chariot, just like the dream. Then she founded her capital at Finchley. [Loc (38, 104) 27] The next hut had the scrolls of Alphabet - one step nearer the goal. The third hut came into view in the exact location given in the nightmare. The night before entering it she prayed to the Gods of Apolyton. As a child her father had recounted the sagas and myths of mighty Apolyton warriors who found the scrolls of Mobile Warfare in such remote villages. Would she be so lucky? A red horseman would spell an end faster than the log.

The following morning a settler returned with news of new wisdom! "Tell me you have the scrolls of Writing!" she asked desperately. The settler's eyes turned towards the ground as he mumbled "Map Making"

"I think we have just lost a great empire we never had" she said turning away in the vague direction of Finchley. Attempting to console his leader he replied "We could always build a boat and get out of here!"

Watching Finchley fade into the horizon Margaret paced the bridge of Trireme One. On board was the non settler and non chariot. The brave warriors left behind would have to hold the city for as long as possible. Though the passengers were non, the boat was supported. When the city fell all would be lost if on board. The course set was north, as the enemy appeared to be coming from the other direction. In her dream a submarine had also appeared but with any luck that would only arrive near the city after they had fled. The objective was to find some islands away from that continent. Alas, Triremes must hug the coast, and that seemed mostly swamp. One beach hut surrendered its secret of Horseback Riding. For weeks they sailed in search of an end to the Mongol Continent. News had reached them that the spies now surrounded Finchley. The Mongol "heavies" would not be far behind. It was time to land and found a new city. A small patch of grassland offered some hope. There was a whale offshore with peat nearby. It was still the same continent but on the north-western cape. Finchley Road was built and the ship re-homed. Immediately afterwards Finchley was destroyed.

The chariot and the boat went scouting, and by good luck were joined by a nomad. Grantham was founded on swamp, but with peat and a whale at hand.

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It is now 3000BC and I will send the game to John and a copy to everyone. Not the best position to pass on - but this time there is a chance for another player!

I must revisit this scenario - it looks as if a wheel has fallen off!

Dare I show my face again - will SG2 ever speak to me again???

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Scouse Git[1]

There are only 4 of them (a non-renewable resource) - and I must confess to amazement that the 'stupid' AI had them up-front in the exploration stakes - it's your own fault for trying to talk to the AI - you were warned that they didn't like you much!
Players of your calibre should be able to cope (should I mention that there is a rather nice tenable choke point to the South of your current position?)

Seriously guys, would you like me to tone down the opposition? - could do it on Sunday ...

Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

Let's see if John wants to carry on as he is the next player.

There are a couple of other things I will e-mail you about! - I did e-mail you on Friday afternoon at work with the log.

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Here then, is a short ( ) history of the Tory tribe:

2950 - Exploring on land and sea.
2900 - Barb Horsemen appear near Grantham.
2850 - Discovered Writing. Research Warrior Code or Pottery? It's a violent world, WC!
2800 - Barbs heading for Grantham. Must head them off with our valuable Chariot if Grantham is to survive. Grantham trains warrior.
2750 - Chariot destroyed by barbs.
2700 - Mongol spy subverted Finchley Road
2650 - Barbs attack Grantham, our only city, no harm to defending warrior (since it's now our only city)
2600 - More barbs spotted
2550 - Message from Mongols, we have decided to rid the world of your civ. (UH-OH!) On the same turn a Mongol spy subverted Grantham. Game over, again...

I think that these spies are just too good! Also, somewhere around 2650 it was announced that the "Golden Age of Philosophy" had begun with the Aztecs. WOW! Talk about advanced!

I think that we need to have a toned down opposition if this game is to work, or a much more isolated starting position. What about you all?

Or, in the immortal words of Bill Murray in What About Bob?... baby steps, baby steps.

I don't know if I even want to have my turn. My psyche is beat up enough as it is. Oh, what the heck. But I agree that we might want to tone this down a bit. Whose idea was this, anyway?

quote: Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida on 01-21-2001 04:09 AM But I wonder what SG1 has done to the game ? was Writing researched before Code of Laws, or were my eyes to tired when I read the posts ?

Yes Julius, writing was put in ahead of Code of Laws! (Read my logs) In case you hadn't noticed this is not your average game when you can build up your cities whilst researching the path to Monarchy. Writing means diplomats! I was desperate to bribe one of their spies. One spy can bribe other spies, and they can steal things like Code of Laws etc. Spies also see two squares away - essential for spotting bad guys!

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SG(2)

John-SJ

I replayed the headstart game a couple of times just to see what would happen. Once I found out where the Mongol spies were going to show up I prepared for them. As a result I was able to bribe 3 of them (though I stupidly lost one in battle) and both cities I was given still survive. In addition I tipped a hut and found a nomad so there are 3 cities, and the 2 original ones are now producing settlers.

So, my question is, should I send the save game on to kcbob, or is my latest adventure to be considered cheating? I await your reply(s)...

I have opened up the current games with the cheat menu - and you ain't got a chance - basically the problem is that the AIs are trading techs like mad and will - with the starting advantages I gave them get to AC in about 10AD - having eaten you three times before breakfast.

DaveV how do I stop the AIs from talking to each other without setting them at each others throats??

With this secret and a slightly reduced Mongol advantage - maybe only a couple of Dips rather than 4 vet Spies - the scenario should be more playable...

Blame it all on me babe..........

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Scouse Git[1]

My main hope was to use one of the spies to steal a more advanced form of government. I had 6 cities by 1550BC, and with no capital corruption/waste was painful. I was hoping to steal Communism/Fundy or at least Monarchy!

Here is my log for 1550BC which explains why I thought there was no point in going further:

1550BC - Spy investigates Shangtu: One musketeer present; Establish Embassy: Here is the list of techs they have that are white:

Bronze
CBurial
CoL
Combustion
Construction
Currency
Engineering
Feudalism
Gunpowder
Invention
Literacy
Masonry
Mysticism
Philo
Polytheism
Pottery
Seafaring
Warrior Code
Wheel

I have just spent the evening with SG[1] and we opened up this year(1550BC)in cheat mode. There is a constant stream of Mongol Horsemen/Elephants/Catapults heading towards us from the south. There are about a dozen French subs to the south, not to mention those from the Mongol's navy. The Russians have a nice little "Wolf Pack" of subs to our east.

SG[1] will make some alterations and stop the AI trading techs as well as reducing their advantage.

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SG(2)

AI Headstart Succession (Take 2) now available from here.

This has been sent to SG(1). I guarantee you will have at least a millenium before they get to you (well I hope you will have at least a millenium).

Good civin' knowing my luck this one will prove too easy!

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Scouse Git[1]

4000 - Finchley was already founded for us - on a very acceptable spot. We also started with an Explorer; Alphabet research goal.
3900 - Grantham founded on the wine ; Nomad from hut;
3800 - Alphabet now researching CB; Canterbury built on mountain (wheat close by makes it viable) - well if they come this way the bad guys will have something to get past!
3700 - Archer from hut
3650 - CB discovered: CoL now target
3600 - 50g from hut
3500 - CoL discovered now for Monarchy
3450 - KNIGHT from hut!
3350 - Another archer from hut! - too many units supported by Canterbury - shield shortage: disband Canterbury's warrior
3250 - MONARCHY just in time for no anarchy! Now Horseback Riding; Another Knight from hut;
3150 - Coventry built on Gems: 50 Gold from hut;
3050 - Horseback Riding - Now researching Writing; Barracks built at Finchley;
3000 - Still alive - but awaiting visitors!

Game sent to John and copy of 3000BC save to other players

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SG(2)