as for the wonders, if it's a modern wonder that was added i can't built it...but then again neither can the computer. sure i can put it in my build queue and pay for it or just wait...but once it's done, it plays the movie and then doesn't actually get built. i even cheated and had the city editor try and complete the wonder but still it won't appear in my city. oddly enough, the computer wont' built a wonder even after it failed to be complete. the indians tried to build ghandi's thingy, completed it and then nothing...i spied on every city they had and it wasn't to be found anywhere. and to top it off, i had 1 of my cities building it at the same time and it just continued on being built. so now i have a building queue that has every new modern wonder still listed in it. i can't build any of them...and that does hurt!! so wes, if u can think of anything that might be causing this hiccup please do assist. if u want me to send u a copy of my saved game file, fine...just let me know...

The B17 replaces the B52 for the Med mod 4. It's just the way the units occur in the timeline. The B52 would look funny coming out with the WWII-era units, and there isn't enough space in the timeline to squeeze it in between Aerodynamics and Adv. Composites.
If you want it in, you can delete the can't_build line in the units text entry, and adjust its values to suit you.
Paul has been checking the units text against the values in the Med charts spreadsheets, and found quite a number of errors. The only major ones were for the Helicopter, which I had not adjusted at all for the mod.
John (Discovery One) has told me that he will not be able to write up any more historical gls for the mod. This leaves the ones for advances, improvements and units undone. The only ones that bother me are the units. I had planned on doing them myself if need be, but I am tied up with schoolwork right now, and don't know when I can get to them. If anyone wants to volunteer to do those, I would be grateful.

I am just getting to the place in my game where you get the wonders that you reported problems with. I am building the Master Race now. I will report on what happens.

Btw everyone, Subs are a force in the game now. I sunk a Dreadnought with a U-boat, though barely. The AIs will be building them too, so you had better have some Destroyers in with your capital ships.

Martock, I remember you stating in the Intro thread that the AIs were not building any farms. With all the problems that you have listed, I wonder if there is not something wrong in your setup somewhere. I would suggest you go through the Intro and Install readme again, and also read the file descriptions on my webpage to make sure you have everything installed correctly.

Btw, I have had my IExplorer and Outlook Express go down on me permanently, so I have had to get Netscape and its accompanying email program. I imported my address book from Outlook Express, but I haven't tested it out yet.
The Netscape stuff appears to be working fine, so I hope that everything will transition smoothly. However, if you have trouble sending me mail, or don't get a reply within a few days, post here and ask me if I got it.

I am making notes of changes to make in the mod, but I want to go farther in my current game before making major adjustments. I want to make all the changes needed, and get all the values for the units, etc. matched up with the Charts before posting the next beta.
Paul has set himself up as the quality control inspector for the mod, something which was badly needed, so hopefully what you read in the Charts, gls etc. will be what you get by the time this thing is formally released.
I am really bogged down with schoolwork right now, so it will probably be a week or so before this next beta gets put out.

I would like to get somemore reports on how peoples games are going. Mostly how the timeline is flowing, gold and time to discover advances.
I am also looking for a volunteer to write up historical gls for the new units. Any WWII enthusiasts out there who want to do something enjoyable? Believe me, it's fun writing these things when they are on a subject you like.

i restarted my game the other day and am almost at the point in time where i'll soon be able to build the master race wonder that i had problems with before. i'll let u know if this issue crops up again.

in this new game the computer is building farms so i don't think that's a problem anymore. i've also noticed one other thing... there are boats EVERYWHERE...i can't sail outta my port without bumping into one of them...i've seen a couple of stacks of 4-5 old triemes and a few stacks of carvels and gallons...while scanning thru this game to make sure the computer was building farms (i was on a island of my own) i even saw several stacks of 9 land units in this case the leading unit was calvary. it seems the computer is more content to build large stacks of stuff now. i'm rather happy with that.

wes, what happend with movement though?? prior to med 4 my horse archers could move 2 spaces thru forests and the later version (i forgot what they were called) could go about 3 or for spaces in forest...now, they can't. i found that space movement very useful for early exploration...did you change them on purpose or by accident?

as for me, gold seems to be flowing rather nicely but having lots of trade routes and with buildings that produce gold, that will happen. the advances seem to go ok.

i have noticed something odd (but since i have yet to finish a game using Med 4 i'm not sure how true this is) but almost every computer opponent i meet in this game loves me...it maybe due to the wonders though since a few do have that affect but darn, it's hard being a jerk in this game i'm playing now...it's been a long time since i have been able to trade with nations of the world and NOT have all my routes pirated.

Cannot recall seeing this happen in Med Mod 3.0 but will play a game with 3.0 and double check.

Just reached the 1700s and I am researching Electronics.

All the civs hate me, though its probably because whenever one of them pirated my trade routes, I have the tendency to take it personally - but even civs that haven't pirated me still do not like me.

As a side note, my last game (pre-Mod), I was able to get most of the civs to get an alliance with me.

My opinion is that there is too much gold in the game, though reducing trade goods or the gold settings is a partial solution - but it will effect everyone.

Science-wise, I'm in the lead, but two other civs are close, based on what I can gift them. They may have a couple of advances that I am not aware of.

Happiness is an ongoing issue, due to empire size and war discontent - but I do prefer that setting (thanks to CD).

However, I find that I have the luxury of building lots of stuff with the mines in forests, so its an easily-handled situation. There was a suggestion to increase happiness improvement costs, but how much emphasis does the AI place on maintaining happiness? If it is a high priority, then that would further cripple the AI, at the cost of military and other improvements that help in a tangible way.

I also think that my lead on the powergraph is due to a large military, because of increased production. I haven't seen too many stacks, but that is because I cleared off my continent of rivals. Currently, I'm taking the offensive to another civ, and am on the verge of eliminating it. I'm saving the strong opponents for later - I want to see if they have the military to repel me, and I figure that I will give them time to build.

I do not build any more mines, since I think it unbalances the game, since the AI doesn't build them. Very tempting though in the early game, because it does jump start your economy. Maybe an increase in price for them would be in order.

As for military, the problem still remains for me that it isn't too difficult to take cities, or hold the ones I have - but my style is the same as Wes (build infrastructure/production, defense, then offense), so when I do go on the offensive, I hit and hit hard. Add to the fact that the AI doesn't seem to be able to maintain a prolonged amphibeous assault and the outcome isn't in doubt. But the naval aspect is 100% better, and I like the fact that I have to maintain a large navy. I'm constantly being harrassed by ships with bombards and piracy, but I do like that now. It's the price to pay for leading the game, I figure. After all, the object is to win, not be buddy-buddy with everyone.

My experience is based on a single game though - conditions vary based on what happens in the early game. And I am on Emperor, so Deity will be more difficult.

My feeling is the same as in the past. Getting to the point of being able to overun the AI opponent is the real challenge in CTP - but I do enjoy getting to that point. From what I see in other games, (such as SMAC) the same problem exists.

There are a whole host of variables to take into account - that much is for sure!!

What global settings do you find to offer the most interesting game

World size
Trade Goods (Many-Few, Uniform-Diverse)
Wet-Dry
Warm-Cold
Continents-Islands
Ocean-Land

I also didn't realize that Mao's book would allow you to max out your wgf bars without penalty. I meant for that wonder to act like a happiness one, and only affect unhappiness due to overcrowding. If we have to take out wonders, this will be the first one to go. If the cutoff point begins with Equal Rights, that will be 13 wonders.
The AIs seem to put the lowest priority on happiness as far as city improvements go, so I added a lot of happiness wonders to try and get the AIs to keep happiness up that way. I will try and check my current game to see if this is working.
As far as wonders to cut, I will take out the ones which only affect certain circumstances, like the Trans-Atlantic Cable, or have specialized effects, like the US Constitution and Gandhi's Rebellion. The Statue of Liberty and Disneyland could be done without as well if they had to be. Ditto for the Crusades and the Inquisition.

There are 5 original wonders that I think we can do just as easily without.
No.1 is Hollywood. I mean, does the AI build many Television improvements?
No.2 is the Dino Park, whose effect so much depends on the city it is built in. This wonder is great for the human, but I don't think the AI knows how to use it.
No.3 the AI Entity, which seems to spell doom for the player that builds it.
No.4 the Egalitarian Proclamation, whose effect is specialized and short-lived, and
No.5 the Nanite Defuser, since the AIs don't use nukes effectively and the premise is pretty far-fetched.
Take out these 5, plus
1 Mao's Book
2 Inquisition
3 Crusades
4 Statue of Liberty
5 US Constitution
6 Gandhi's Rebellion
7 Trans-Atlantic Cable
8 Disneyland

Inquisition and mao's book are really kind of dangerous if you're not ahead. If an ai player researches the obsolete advance while you have your wgf bars maxed, well, there goes your civ, as my other game demonstrated when the egyptians lost mao's book. Also while you have them they are very powerful, and the negative science effect you can counter by reducing wages and getting more people for scientists and conquering. So I wouldn't miss these too much.

An idea though- WesW, if you intended them to help with happiness you could just use the reduce overcrowding flag, maybe for about 5 or more, at least enough that they are differentiated from a normal happiness improvement, and maybe give them another effect (besides the already included science penalty). Basically I was just thinking that it wouldn't hurt to have some more 'interesting' wonders, besides just normal happiness ones (for ex- darwin's wonder, which besides increasing science also decreases happiness, seems pretty wicked to me.

Actually, the only one I might miss would be the AI entity. I like to have one wonder that makes everyone content. Its mainly a personal preference though- I just love to see a rival civ get into a big civil war when it revolts. There are always mind controller improvements anyway. Once before I changed it, eliminating the chance to revolt, but giving it some substantial negative side effects (I don't remember what they were now).

But looking at the ones you chose for deletion Wes, I think you offer good suggestions.

Let me get this right though.

1. The game engine or code will work with the fist 64 wonders listed in the wonders.txt file.
2. So, to assure that those wonders do work as intended, the wonders.txt file needs to be edited to list just the first 64 wonders or to have it edited to remove any that surpass 64 in number.

My question is, if wonders.txt is edited to remove wonders selectively, will that require editing other files also or will that be sufficient to allow the game to play without crashing due to wonder-related problems?

While I agree with Martock about the U.S. Constitution, more from sentimental value, hey I am an American, I think the Trans-Alantic Cable should definitely be kept. I generally play on an oversized map, and you need the Confusion Academy and the Trans-Alantic Cable type Wonders so that you can build up to your largest extent. Also, if you end up on an island, and you need to build cities on a somewhat distant continent, you will also need the Confusions Academy and then the Trans-Alantic Cable to keep your cities from revolting while you are discovering some of the later governments that don't have the big distance penalty.

So, the long and the short of it is that I think you need to keep the Trans-Alantic Cable in and maybe eliminate one of the other Wonders. I think if you eliminate just one of the Happiness Wonders and supplement it by making a different happiness Wonder last longer, you may actually accomplish you goals anyway.

The only change I have made is to the Wonder text, commenting out all the lines dealing with the deleted wonders. This appears to be all that needs to be done, aside from re-doing the gl links that Paul mentioned.
I will try and get a reply from someone at Activision regarding this limit, both as to how it may be fixed, and if it is in CtP2 as well. In other news....

I lowered the gold coeffecient for all governments by 5%. This may not be enough to make a significant difference, but the timeline seems to flow pretty well for the first half of the game as is, and I my top priority is not to mess anything up. I will have to start another game due to the wonder limit problem, and it will take some time to see how things go.

I also raised the cost of Renaissance age happiness wonders by 25%, and those for later ages by 33%. I lowered the overcrowding effect of the Sensorium from 5 to 3, and increased its cost about 10% rather than simply raising its cost to 27,000.
The Sensorium and Teleportation now have the same effects and cost.

I raised the cost of mines in the game. The cost-to-benefit ratios are detailed in the Terrain readme and in the terrain gls. The biggest effect was on the basic land mines and sea mines. Sea mines' cost-to-benefits are now the same as that of basic land mines, which caused a large increase in their cost.
Overall, it should be a bigger incentive to upgrade your mines, and sea cities will not be such a huge bargain.

Btw, Paul, I have updated all the necessary gls except for the links thing.

Either this advance (and the AI Surv) are comming too late or Space Flight (and adv. Composite and Space Colonies) are comming too early. I tend most to the first.

Personally I think AMW shouldn't have AIS as prerequest, but more like adv. ceramics and plastic.

AIS could come after Space Flight and m'be one more.

I have some correction to my previos.

After a look on you advance-chart, I can see, that something prevents other in a very tricky way.

I'll have a closer look and hopefully some comments/suggestions tomorrow.

What I want is something like:

Ability to rechears for modern tanks, stealth sea and air units first then space units.

Means to postpone the Space era a little, m'be that much that it will available only after the Sea Colonies but at least after "modern land war units".

I am still fiddling with unit settings some. I adjusted the naval units last night. I decided to re-name the Dreadnought the Heavy Cruiser. It has the same stats basically, and the same sprite. It doesn't go obsolete until the Missile Cruiser is available, though.
I lowered the offensive power of the subs a little, and adjusted the settings for the Missile Cruiser and Battleship some. The Battleship is now a little more powerful than the Missile Cruiser in hand-to-hand combat. I mean, if anything afloat today got within the range of the New Jersey's 16" guns, it would be in trouble. The Missile Cruiser has active air-defense and can see Subs, neither of which the Battleship can do.
The Battleship doesn't go obsolete until the Plasma Destroyer is available, so once you get the Battleship you have a choice of small, medium and large ships to choose from.
Destroyer-Missile Frigate, Heavy Cruiser-Missile Cruiser, and Battleship-Plasma Destroyer are the small, medium and capital ships, respectively.
I had the thought of making a middle-sized ship line for a long time, and decided to put it in after seeing how long it took to build Battleships in my last game. This is also about how things went historically. Battleships were moth-balled after WWII not only because of the emergence of the Carrier, but because they were so expensive to keep in service. The U.S. battleships were quite useful up through Desert Storm, but were finally decommissioned because smaller, cheaper-to-run ships could do the same things.
I decided to use the Cruiser sprite from Harlan's WWII units pack for the Missile Frigate. It looks more like the real thing than the Destroyer sprite I had stuck in there previously.
For those of you who might have wondered why subs have no bombard capability, it is because of how the AIs use them. If a ship can bombard, the AIs try to use them to bombard your cities. This meant that they would park their subs next to your cities, and you would discover them when you tried to move a ship in or out of that city. Well, once a sub is discovered, it's dead meat, so the AIs were not getting anything out of them.
I am irritated at the way the AIs keep throwing away their Destroyers and Dreadnoughts against my coastal cities' Cannons and Howitzers, but I don't have anymore ideas on how to get them to stop, other than to take away their 'bombard land' capabilities.
It's really annoying because I have exactly the opposite problem with how the AIs use their land units. If they don't know they will win, they usually won't attack. With the huge numbers of units they build now, I could have been overrun in my last game if the AIs had been willing to take a chance on losing a stack initially to break through my frontline defenses.

I have also re-arranged the Med Charts so that they are easier to read, and the improvements should print out on 1 page now.

But to work: You can't be serious. Tanks are modern units - okay between modern and genetic.

Hoovertank should be that last unit. That would fit nicely with the Space Fighter and the War Walker.

If we only take a look on when a certain military-unittype might be "invented", I think that it should be something like this (havn't mentioned all):

Wormhole Probe, all real "Star War" units.

Space Fighter, Space Marine, Hoovertank, War Walker, Plasma Destroyer.

Space Plane, Space Engineer.

Sea Engineer, Stealth units air/sea, Tank, Interceptor, Spy Satelite, Paratrooper, Artillery, Missile Cruiser.

Mobile SAM, Helicopter, Marine, Airbourne.

Earlier: No changes - seems to fit very well.

And for the game:

I'm now at year 2150 (+- a couple of years). I'm dropped down as no. 7 in rank.

3 times I have been attack "without provocations".

First time the leading civ used a hell lot of cargo pods, sending more than 15 units in ONE TURN right in my center - and more follows the next 5 turns. Units of different type (stormtrooper, mec. infantery, artillery). Making stack of 6-8. Hell what a fight.

2.nd time no. 2 in rank has succeded in placing 12 artillery units in some of my "black" spots. I was at war with him, and if was pure accident, that I ran into him. Lucky for me, as the place where close to my capitol - too close.

The AI uses special units a lot - (the normal: spy and lawyer) AND I have seen Infectors(!) around.

One time a day (after saving - just before ending) I enable cheat-mode a take a view over the "planet":

Concentrations of 40-50 units in small areas are not unusual. Ships are stacking.

This thing just triggers me.

I am in the Industrial age in my game, and everything is going well. I have experimented with eliminating the over-crowding effect of the Aqueduct, and I like the change. Now, you need all of the happiness improvements, sometimes as soon as you get them. There are not enough happiness improvements if you have a large war discontent.
I think I will add back one point of the over-crowding effect for the public release, to give people a little room, but the Aqueduct has always seemed a little too good of a value to me, and this makes things better, imo.

The other big news is I think I have finally succeeded in getting the AIs to attack more often. Previously, I had made small adjustments to the 'attack_troops' setting. This time, I added a zero to the value, and I think I am seeing definite changes.
Before, the AIs would usually choose to bombard rather than attack when it came to naval combat. Now I have noticed them attacking much more often, it seems. I have not had enough land combat to make a conclusion, but I am hopeful based upon what I have seen.

I altered the advances' costs tonight. Probably not enough, but it will make some difference. The ones most affected were the 19th and 20th century stuff. I increased the cost of all the later advances by 10,000.
I was going to wait until I got to those advances in my current game before making the changes, but I am having a crash problem, so I went ahead and did them anyway while I wait on some help.

The readme lists the increase in pollution for Robot plant as 60%; in the txt file its coded as 30%. (I think thelower value is the better choice, mirroring the Nuke plant, which is also 30/30, but unmentioned in the readme.)

Fusion Plants have not had their effects scaled in line with the other improvements - they still add 50% production. I was thinking 60% would be better - the 'motherload' of production in the late game.

I like the shift to the 30% intervals, but it means that other improvements need changing. Now, the Pharmacy and Sec Monitor 25% bonus seems HUGE (as do some of the Wonders) - maybe those should be reduced to 15%? The sum of all these changes (including Robots, Nukes, Forges, Fusion, Pharm, SecMon) means that total unWondered production increases are limited to 300%.

Also, the reduction in polluting means that presently there is only a total of 300% increases in pollution from factories and airports, but 600% in pollution cleaning ability (i.e. you will never need Ecotransit). Tweaks to the other imps are needed:

I was thinking starting with removing the fusion plant's pollution reduction. If it gives a 60% production bonus - the game's largest! - maybe it doesn't need the other effect.

Recycling plants now clean up all pollution of Forges, Factories, and Refineries combined! Clearly, too powerful - reduce to 160%