quote: Originally posted by XMon on 09-02-2000 12:19 AM Hey I've been lurking here for about a month and I just installed Med Mod 4 and think it's a great mod... Thanks. A lot of people here put a lot of time (several thousand man-hours for all the various components) into making it. Category A (bugs me a little bit but no big deal): 3-if 2 Wonders are built in the same turn (I know this rarely happens if you're not cheating, now you know my secret)only one .avi is shown. This doesn't happen with the standard CTP game...it shows both .avi's one after the other. Odd. I never noticed this one before. I have no idea what to do about it, though. Category B (somewhat irritating): 1-No one will exchange maps with me if I approach them first. You just have to get on their good side. Category C (I can't deal with this!): Wes, I love this mod but these two things kill me... 1-when I bombard a unit which is itself capable of bombardment...I take a big hit. For example, a cannon rolled up to the coast and attempted to bombard my two stacked ironclads (this is the part of timeline I am playing right now). The cannon was not succesful in bombarding my units but when I returned the favor, one of my ironclads was significantly damaged. Same thing every time I bombard another unit capable of bombardment itself. I can imagine the reasoning that a bombarding capable unit would counter with it's own bombardment but the game play just doesn't feel real. In real war it is possible for a unit to surprise another and sink it or destroy it without reprisal. Plus, if the game does not allow the land unit to bombard my sea unit then it seems odd that I'd take a hit when bombarding said land unit. I'm finding that a majority of the time I'm better off with direct assault in that I'm taking less of a hit than when I bombard and I think this is the opposite effect intended with the bombard function. Winning the bombardment (artillery) duel depends on the strength of the two units, any terrain advantage, and veteran status. You can only bombard if you have an entire movement point left. That was why the AI couldn't roll its cannon up and bombard you on the same turn. When you used your Ironclads, then a normal duel commenced. The units in the game, with perhaps the exception of capital ships, are meant to represent more than a single thing (an Archer unit represents more than one guy named Tom, for example). Thus, I can't see units being wiped out without inflicting at least a little damage normally. 2-This one is killing the game for me! NO ONE will capitulate to my no trespassing demands! This makes diplomacy impossible and I'm pretty much forever at war with everyone because I will not accept foreign units in my city tiles and they will not stay away. I mean...I've got 20 cities and heavy cruisers and some dumb little civ with 5 cities and caravels refuses to stay away from my territory and thus those caravels die. Not at all realistic. I'm really not enjoying the game primarily because of this no trespassing thing. I'm not expecting Wes to change the mod because of me...but can someone tell me where to make adjustments to the code to rectify this? The trespassing problem is recognized as a major one, and has a long history. Nordicus worked on this topic when he made his half of the Awesome Aips with me last year. Basically, it is the lesser of two evils (the other evil being AIs who never launched attacks). Unless the AI is spoiling for a fight, his ships should not park themselves in your territory permanently, or pillage and/or pirate your routes. (Same with land units, though they may stay around a number of turns.) If otherwise friendly nations pirate you, demand a stop-pirating agreement. Normally they will accept and honor it. Note: The game will automatically move workers back to tiles when a unit moves back off them. For land units, use some of your out-dated ones to form picket lines wherever possible to form a border. WesW...I think Med Mod 4 is awesome and plays better than the standard version but for the bombardment thing and especially the "no trespassing" issue. Thanks mucho, and thanks if anyone can help fixing the above.

Hope this helps.

Other things I noticed (if anyone's still here): the airborne unit will not jump from an airfield, only from a city. When you stack eight leathernecks (and presumably marines also...didn't get that far) on a Liberty Ship and attack a city only four (or maybe it was five) of the leathernecks actually attacked the city using amphibious assault instead of all eight. This caused them to die.

I used Easymod to modify the units to take away the counterbombard flag which worked fine. While I was in there I changed a couple of other things too. I gave the helicopter an extra movement turn and also made the copter able to carry one small land unit. I also gave the uboat bombard capability. Weird thing is...taking away counterbombard worked fine but the other changes did not take. I loaded the scenario in easymod and even copied the altered files to med mod 4 default folder but still no change except for the counterbombard...strange. Any ideas?

I keep getting reports of crashes from different people on different things. I have just finished playing around with the game, trying different things. I have yet to have a game that didn't crash before 0AD due to one thing or another.
I never was able to get the game to crash in the same way due to the same thing more than one time, so I have to guess as to the reasons behind the crashes.
The last time it crashed, it gave 2 invalid page fault messages, the 2nd of which said "DDhelp" caused an invalid page fault in kernel32.dll at such-n-such. Ihave no idea what DDhelp is. I did notice the game hanging during random civ's turns for a couple of seconds, which I hadn't noticed before the installation of the disseminate trigger.

What a great civ game ctp is now with the fabulous med mod improvements! Though I suspect the recently-added slic trigger that gives all the players advances for free when other civs discover them makes med mod 4 too easy to ever lose -- but you better be ready with at least bombards by the 1700s or so when the ai launches a very nice naval bombardment and amphibious assault! Very cool.

Perhaps if *only* the ai's were involved with those free advances and not the human, now that could be tough. Nah, some ai would just trade you for cannons and explosives eventually I suppose. But if all the ai's were militant/aggressive they would hate you from day one and wouldn't trade...

Well I never made it to war walkers in med mod 4 (great idea to push them way into the future to neural interface!) but I suppose they can destroy the world like always when you finally get them.

Oh yeah the lead ai had future techs 10 in four categories but still didn't have some mainline techs (neural interface namely, which I was waiting for). Don't know if that's supposed to happpen. But I had to position to attack in, well, 2236 with just artillery. I think I would have captured the lead ai capital with 20-some artillery surrounding it but I guess I'll never know now.

With other crashes earlier and ctp 2 on the way, I guess it doesn't make much sense to upload my 2236 game file to anyone to examine why it is crashing. I guess that means... can it be? I'm done playing ctp now!? What a concept. Could it be true, finally?

Thanks Wes and everyone else for your hard work in turning a real dog into the best turn-based civ game of all! Well if it didn't crash.

Although nothing seems to *ever* beat that venerable Master of Magic game -- but then if Wes and everyone could have improved the ai in that game, whoa!

I am currently playing your Med Mod 4 game. I am at about 850 AD. The game has not crashed on me yet. However, I have noticed a hiccup or two. What I mean is that the game went blank for about a second, twice, but then it came back fine. If I had been using Windows 98 I think I would have definitely have gotten the Page Fault message that you mentioned.

In fact, this is exactly what I got when I was using Windows 98 and something similar happened. Now that I am using Windows 2000 though, everything runs much more stably and things that caused crashes before just cause the hiccups previously mentioned and then go on like nothing ever happened.

I will continue playing the game and see what happens. If I had to make a guess though, I would guess the problem is with the Slic Code that simulates the dissemination of tech. This slic code is constantly making calls to the game and this may result in the page fault errors mentioned.

As a way to test this, I would suggest starting over and remarking out the line at the end of the script.slc file and calls the slic code that makes this tech dissemination take place. If I remeber correctly, it is at the end of the script.slc file. All you have to do is put a // in front of it and this will serve to remark it out so the game will not call it up. Try that, and see what happens. If you still have problems, you have atleast eliminated one possiblity.

I have uploaded a different text version of the mod, with this trigger out-commented. I have updated the Med 4 readme to note this and why, with specific instructions on how to re-implement it, and the suggestion that players with Windows 2000 probably *can* use the trigger.

This still leaves those crashes I and others have experienced before the disseminate trigger was added. I have only suspicions as to what caused those, and I have decided to leave the mod as is, at least until someone can find out for sure exactly what the problem is.

Ok I wrote the Disseminate Trigger and I completely tested it and it works in every single scenario... AHEM... well... um... except of course the one I over-looked.

My bad. I'm sorry about all the games I've crashed. Especially coldsteel, man that's a bummer to die that late in the game.

The trouble is that SLIC will crash if you try to GrantAdvance to a dead Civ. Even resurected civs are fine but not dead ones.

To fix each of the triggers (ie discovery and traded versions) you must wrap all the if checks that GrantAdvances in one single if check...

In the file scenarios\MedPack4\default\gamedata\disseminate.slc
add the following if block:

advanceGranted = 0;
if (IsPlayerAlive(playerIndex) == 1) {
if (discovery.type == 0) {if (Random(2*numberOfPlayers)< numberWithAgriculture) {advanceGranted = 1; GrantAdvance(playerIndex, discovery.type);}}
...
if ((advanceGranted == 1) && (IsHumanPlayer(playerIndex) == 1)) {Message(playerIndex, '117DisseminationDiscovery');}
} // endif IsPlayerAlive(playerIndex)
playerIndex = playerIndex + 1;
...

The same if block is required for the discovery.traded trigger.

An updated disseminate.slc will be in Wes's mailbox soon.

Ok I wrote the Disseminate Trigger and I completely tested it and it works in every single scenario... AHEM... well... um... except of course the one I over-looked.

My bad. I'm sorry about all the games I've crashed. Especially coldsteel, man that's a bummer to die that late in the game.

The trouble is that SLIC will crash if you try to GrantAdvance to a dead Civ. Even resurected civs are fine but not dead ones.

To fix each of the triggers (ie discovery and traded versions) you must wrap all the if checks that GrantAdvances in one single if check...

In the file scenarios\MedPack4\default\gamedata\disseminate.slc
add the following if block:

advanceGranted = 0;
if (IsPlayerAlive(playerIndex) == 1) {
if (discovery.type == 0) {if (Random(2*numberOfPlayers)< numberWithAgriculture) {advanceGranted = 1; GrantAdvance(playerIndex, discovery.type);}}
...
if ((advanceGranted == 1) && (IsHumanPlayer(playerIndex) == 1)) {Message(playerIndex, '117DisseminationDiscovery');}
} // endif IsPlayerAlive(playerIndex)
playerIndex = playerIndex + 1;
...

The same if block is required for the discovery.traded trigger.

An updated disseminate.slc will be in Wes's mailbox soon.

And sorry for the delay, I was of on vacation this past week.

When I tried out the new, debugged trigger a couple of days ago, it did seem to work. However, the trigger itself was too powerful. I have emailed Chris about making some alterations to it, and I hope he can get back to me soon so that I can try them out.

1)I would like to have the trigger first become activate in about the late-Renaissance age, so that it doesn't upset the timeline early in the game. This is about the point that the lead civs pull away from the trailers tech-wise.

2)I would like to change the trigger so that it doesn't fire before an advance is known to about half the civs in the game. Then it would have the current chance of firing when the next civ gets the advance (about 50%, and increasing thereafter).

Iīm playing now in Deity and is Perfect.

About:
1 and 2)Those are good ideas!

The first thing is that at various points, all of
my queues hiccup and I lose all production.

The second thing is that after a certain point in
a huge map game (somewhere over 140 cities) the
pollution dropped to zero. I wanted to get a good
feel for the balance, so I was playing at the second
level, but still.

Lastly, I have also seen the bug where SDI can be
built before it is discovered.