Also, I was glad to see it mentioned at only 50% done... hey maybe we (the fans) can still get some in edgewise.. although quoting from the source: "Aside from the rabid fan base that supplies an inch-thick document of suggestions every month, the designers themselves have had five years to ponder and test new ideas". Hmmm, so thats like 5 feet worth of fan ideas eh? LOL!

It did give numbers for the minor wonders, 24 in all (and 12 major wonders).

Something else, relevant to fog of war, is that units on mountains can see further... I wonder if this means the maps will have different altitude, like SMAC.

Also, it said the game covers 6500 years, and the game should come with 12 scenarios (cool!), and there was also mention of attempts at bringing civ2 scenarios to specs with civ3.

The 6500 years thing is a bit wierd. It doesn't seem to make much sense to start in the middle of a millenium, so perhaps this means the game is going to end in 2500 AD? Perhaps a surprise they'll drop on us later, and they've been purposely holding back on showing future units and so forth? That doesn't make much sense in terms of the number of wonders given though. If all the old ones are still there, as mentioned somewhere else, that means only 8 new wonders, and as we know of the Great Canal, Internet and Pentagon already, that would mean a max of 5 for the future.

So is there an extra 500 future years, or does the game start in 4500 BC instead of 4000 BC, and if so, why??? Its also interesting that they don't say the game covers 6520 years, meaning the game won't be ending in 2020 in any case like Civ2, unless the reporter was just being sloppy.

I also find it really interesting that most of the wonders will be minor wonders. Can that really be correct? The examples of minor wonders given, like Manhattan Project, or Apollo Program, make sense. But how can you have 6 United Nations, or Magellan's Expeditions, or Sun Tzu's War Academies in one world? It seems like almost all of the old 28 wonders would be major wonders, i.e., completely unique things. 12 of the old wonders are specifically tied to famous people like Shakespear or DaVinci, so are those the 12 major ones?

quote: Originally posted by Harlan on 04-30-2001 11:36 PM The 6500 years thing is a bit wierd.

I put my trust on what the man actually have already confirmed: 4000 BC - around 2020 AD

quote: Originally posted by smellymummy on 04-30-2001 11:00 PM It did give numbers for the minor wonders, 24 in all (and 12 major wonders).

This is news for me, but I believe: Good news!

In civ-2/SMAC it was too easy to Wonder-collect your way to success. Each added wonder only enlarged the distance between the human leader and the AI-civs. Making 12 small wonders available to everyone, and reduce the amount of truly exclusive Wonders to only 12, should re-balance the greedy collecting-strategy somewhat.

Also reducing the total amount of wonder from 27 to 24 (12+12) also helps in making the exclusive Wonders a little more awesome and special, and not just yet another enlarged & extra costly city-improvement. The latter feel would indeed be a problem if they instead would have incremented the amount to above 30 wonders. Even the 27 ones in Civ-2 was a border-case.

-------------- edited:
Maybe I misunderstood? Do you mean 24 minor Wonders PLUS 12 major Wonders, making it a grand total of 36?
--------------

quote: Something else, relevant to fog of war, is that units on mountains can see further... I wonder if this means the maps will have different altitude, like SMAC.

quote: Originally posted by Russian King on 05-01-2001 05:52 AM This game is unfair: should be 2200 no more/less.

I what way have fairness anything to do with this issue? Besides; read quote; "and the game should come with 12 scenarios (cool!)". Some of those scenarios will be SciFi futuristic. Dont worry.

quote: at least some kind of future, maybe so that modern age is 3/4 of the way through the game, otherwise itll be VERY boring

alright
alright

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 05-01-2001 06:09 AM I also believe this confirmed span of time. Perhaps the previewer in the magazine just made a mistake. I really hope they don't include future techs.

Why not a basic historical game ending in 2020 or thereabouts, and a seperate extended game with future techs. See if you guys had TOT you'd think of that as a solution. The objection of course is that the AI would need more porgramming, as different strats would make sense. In TOT, being
Civ2, the AI is not strategically sophisticated enough that it really makes much diff (as far as i can tell) Would this be different in Civ3?

Theres been lots of talk about Civ3 borrowing from CTP. Dont y'all think civ3 will borrow from TOT, which, if by different designers, is at least within the franchise? Extended game, perhaps included sci fi game, multi-map options, etc.

If the game lasts 6500 years, instead of stretching into the future maybe the game starts earlier? Perhaps, the game goes from 4500 BC to 2020 AD?

If the game must last 6500 years, I would much prefer more ancient techs than future techs.

GSUK: How many years of human history will the game span and will there be an ultimate objective like conquering the stars or the subduing the other races?

Sid: Civ III will cover from 4000BC to somewhere around the year 2020. The game will offer several ways to win, so the ultimate objective will depend on which pathway to victory you choose (we'll talk more about new ways to win in an upcoming website update).

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 05-01-2001 12:09 PM and guys, the time span is noted twice: it's 4000BC - 2500AD = 6500 years civ3 will have future techs. live with

Nooooooooooooooooo! Nooooooooooooooo! Noooooooooooo!

quote: Originally posted by Old Beardy on 05-01-2001 12:34 PM Here's the actual quote from SID : GSUK: How many years of human history will the game span and will there be an ultimate objective like conquering the stars or the subduing the other races? Sid: Civ III will cover from 4000BC to somewhere around the year 2020. The game will offer several ways to win, so the ultimate objective will depend on which pathway to victory you choose (we'll talk more about new ways to win in an upcoming website update). So unless he's talking out of his anal rectory, that should be an end to it!

*On seeing this, Roman breathes a sigh of relief*

16
Number of civilizations
---------
8
Number of civs to play with
---------
12
Number of scenarios planned
---------
6,500
Number of years covered
---------
20
Number of developers on Civilization III
---------
36
Number of Firaxis employees
---------
2
Number of projects Firaxis has in development
---------
0
Amount of information about 'Sid's secret project' <---Whats that??
---------
12
Firaxis' suite address in its 12-story building
---------
13
Actual floor on the demo
---------
89.2%
Average rating the five Meier-named games have received in PC Gamer

I don't have a scanner, but I do have a digital camera, once the batteries recharge, i'll take a picture.

quote: Originally posted by To_Serve_Man on 05-01-2001 03:51 PM 8 Number of civs to play with

*The below statements apply only if the above is actually true, which is by no means certain due to the contradictory nature of the information given*

Yes!! You know what this means? This means that the hard-coded limit isn't 8 (due to binary nature of computing) and we will be able to tweak this in the text files to at least 15.

Now I wonder what they could be talking about.

The contradictory info about the game years is frustrating. Perhaps its simply a case of Firaxis themselves not knowing for sure. I'm sure there are lots of features they'll want to add, but whether or not they get in depends on if they run out of time or not. Maybe going into the future is one of these things, and if you ask one Firaxis employee you'll get one answer, and if you ask another you'll get a different one, depnding on how much they want that feature. Remember the game is only half finished.

I know Firaxis doesn't want to say too much about the game at this point, to keep the surprise and so forth. But a few short answers would be great to clarify the contradictory info and controversy swirling around. Namely:

1. In what years will the game begin and end?

2. How many civs can be in the game at once, and can that number be increased through modification?

3. Are minor civs in fact in the game, and could we hear at least a hint of how they different from regular civs?

Anyways, I wonder if anyone has considered that 16 civs may not necessarily mean 8 playable at once - it could be that there are 16 totally individual civs (no repeating colors) that can be played simultaneously. Well, probably not all of them at once but maybe they can be played in any combination (unlike the original, where you could have no Egyptians and Aztecs at once).

Yeah, there are a couple of holes in this theory, the main one being that I am not sure they can make 16 different colors easily distinguishable from each other, but it's a definite possiblity (remember the old 16 color video graphics?).

P.S. I tried to update my e-mail address (the current one is outdated by a year) and it told me that hotmail is banned. Um, why?

quote: Originally posted by Harlan on 04-30-2001 11:36 PM The 6500 years thing is a bit wierd. It doesn't seem to make much sense to start in the middle of a millenium, so perhaps this means the game is going to end in 2500 AD? Perhaps a surprise they'll drop on us later, and they've been purposely holding back on showing future units and so forth? That doesn't make much sense in terms of the number of wonders given though. If all the old ones are still there, as mentioned somewhere else, that means only 8 new wonders, and as we know of the Great Canal, Internet and Pentagon already, that would mean a max of 5 for the future. So is there an extra 500 future years, or does the game start in 4500 BC instead of 4000 BC, and if so, why??? Its also interesting that they don't say the game covers 6520 years, meaning the game won't be ending in 2020 in any case like Civ2, unless the reporter was just being sloppy. I also find it really interesting that most of the wonders will be minor wonders. Can that really be correct? The examples of minor wonders given, like Manhattan Project, or Apollo Program, make sense. But how can you have 6 United Nations, or Magellan's Expeditions, or Sun Tzu's War Academies in one world? It seems like almost all of the old 28 wonders would be major wonders, i.e., completely unique things. 12 of the old wonders are specifically tied to famous people like Shakespear or DaVinci, so are those the 12 major ones? [This message has been edited by Harlan (edited April 30, 2001).]

sorry for picking on you, harlan, but you summarize most of what we're arguing about.

the 6500 years bit may or may not be accurate. Sid DID say from 4000 BC to AROUND 2020 AD, but that "around" seems to be a bit inaccurate if its 480 years away.
Remember also, the game is only 50% completed, and the future ages may not be set in stone (or silicon, as the case may be) yet. they're still playing around with it, figuring if it'll work.

I am a bit surprised at the proposed number of wonders. in the civ2 manual notes, it said they made a big deal about how wonders are supposed to be in groups of 7! it didn't make sense (they said) to talk about the "6 wonders of the ancient world". I wonder if that's something more they'll tweak...

I like the Idea of minor wonders, as has been discussed here endlessly and on THE LIST. I personally was offended every time I built Apollo and every nation got to bask in the results of my work. I rejoiced to hear that Apollo and Manhattan would be civ specific wonders. I don't see why a number of others could be built for each civ. The hoover dam and the 3 rivers dam in china. Xin Yu's could be broken into central training for your civs units (parris island boot camp), and so on.

quote: 16 Number of civilizations --------- 8 Number of civs to play with ---------

You do realize that this could mean 16 Civs in a game, but you can only pick from 8 (which means 8 Major Civs and 8 Minor Civs).

It would allow a lot of futuristic scenarios too- giving more of that eras artwork for scenario designers to implement.

If done realistically futuristic techs could work well, with things like Nano technologies, laser/beam guns.. antigravity vehicles etc. could be very interesting and make the game much more interesting.
Maybe there could be some scifi scenarios with the game at least.