quote: Originally posted by Roman on 05-06-2001 07:33 PM If I remember correctly Toynbee had aprox. 40 civilizations and Spengler only a few. Huntington had only 7 or 8, though. Anyway, I think by far the majority of players haven't read any of those authors' works and even if they have the civilizations in the game are completely different than the ones they presented (eg. Huntington says there is only one western civilization encompasing Europe, US and possibly Latin America). Civilizations in Civ are more like nations, so this wouldn't be a reason for restricting their number in the game.

Agreed. Absolutely.

LOTM

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 05-06-2001 07:33 PM If I remember correctly Toynbee had aprox. 40 civilizations and Spengler only a few. Huntington had only 7 or 8, though. Civilizations in Civ are more like nations, so this wouldn't be a reason for restricting their number in the game.

I agree. I used to mix nations and proper civ, but changed my mind months ago.

I'll love to have at least the option to start with realistic early Civ, then have the opportunity to rename them at main history events, as conquer of another civ (e.g. Kingdom of Austria becoming Empire of Austria-Hungaria), collapse and split of large empire (Byzantin Empire born from former Roman Empire), long term pact (European Community as commercial, political and militar fusion of France, German, Italy).
What a great opportunity for history simulation, with very limited developers efforts!

I understand that, with some effort, we could make a MOD to change available Civ, but I praise Firaxis to add also this ability to rename "on the fly" Civ name, Leader title, etc. as we like (or related to some trigger event, defined in base game or at least for scenario developers).

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark on 05-07-2001 01:27 PM Geez, I go away for awhile and then you get an issue that brings out all of the over-reactionary, whining cry-babies. Let's say you start with 32, 24 of them will be minor or too small to last on a finite map. So you end up with 6-7 majors anyways. 7 competitive, customizable AI civs, along with cultural/religious attributes and different modes of winning, will be a substantial improvement over Civ2.

It's not as everyone is whining
You and others feel good with some game limits, others not. It's not a matter of "substantial improvement over Civ 2": it could be (still to be proven testing the real game, of course ) or not.

Take a european city car, five seat place, 140Km/h max speed, 20Km for litre of gasoline.
Ask for a model with faster speed, seven seat place, less fuel consume, better confort.
Get a Ferrari, 2+2 seat place, 280Km/h max speed, don't mention fuel consume

Is it a great improvement? It depends.
Can you have a dream car fullfilling every request? No.
Some of the feature are out of technical availability? Nope.

Are a reasonable number of simultaneous playing Civ (e.g. from 12 to 16) out of reality? No. Ask to MarkG
Does such number of Civ improve the game? We haven't tested, so we don't know for sure, but we can't deny that for the same reason.

But that's not my last post (may be you are replying to me, too, I don't know). Mine is:

quote: Are realistic Civ name included in available starting list any bad for Civ?