I would love to hear everybodies thoughts on this because I am not really sure as to a solution to this problem, but I know I what they in place currently doesn't work.

I have a very good feeling that this will be fixed in civ 3, though, and that how much people like you be more based on how many times you have committed acts against them and their friends, and inversly the number of acts against their enemies.

What really has my expectations up is the fact that the designers have almost certainly all played Civ for years and years, and that they are being led by Sid Meier, who by definition as the designer has played the game longer than anybody.

If I've understood correctly what's been said about Civ3, tho' (e.g. in the CGW article), diplomatic and economic victories will also be possible - so a large economically weak empire won't necessarily be a threat. There'll be other factors besides military might and technological advancement, and that gives me hope that (1) sheer size won't provoke an automatic 'gang-up' reaction; and (2), even if it does, there will be diplomatic and economic ways to counteract such AI alliances.

quote: Originally posted by Ilkuul on 04-13-2001 06:03 PM I've had the same problem that big=bad, and everyone gangs up against you in the endgame. Interestingly, the opposite has occurred a couple of times for me in OCC games: 'cos I was only 1 city, they paid no attention to the fact that I was far and away the most advanced civ, and would soon be winning the space race! If I've understood correctly what's been said about Civ3, tho' (e.g. in the CGW article), diplomatic and economic victories will also be possible - so a large economically weak empire won't necessarily be a threat. There'll be other factors besides military might and technological advancement, and that gives me hope that (1) sheer size won't provoke an automatic 'gang-up' reaction; and (2), even if it does, there will be diplomatic and economic ways to counteract such AI alliances. And of course with the possibility of revolts, secessions, etc. (see other threads), it'll be a lot harder to maintain a very large empire anyway!

I hope it will be possible to maintain large empires in civ3! But since they are probably going to allow economic victories, and a new trade system, I think that there is going to be even more wars in civ3, if you monopolize certain commodities. Sounds reasonable?

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 04-13-2001 06:33 PM The frequency is likely to increase, but the magnitude of such wars won't be nearly to the scale of those in civ 2. There might be little skirmishes allong the borders to try and take small portions of land to try and weaken their economy, but there isn't likely to be nearly as many conquest wars exept by agressive militeristic civs.

I'm not sure what to think! Let's say that you build a great empire (20-30) cities, monopolize certain goods and lead the research-race. I'll bet every other civ ally against you, and all hell breaks loose!

Besides, if you are so powerful, they are more likely to ally with you (or at least should be) so they can leech off your science/money/armies/etc. and hopefully surpass you (on the harder levels), so you don't get that Economic victory that you were aiming for.

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 04-13-2001 06:47 PM Or they might not because you would cut off their only supply of those goods and they would never be able to sustain themselves. Either after a few turns of them throwing their stingy armies at you, they would give up and come knocking at your door for mercy and their commodities back. Besides, if you are so powerful, they are more likely to ally with you (or at least should be) so they can leech off your science/money/armies/etc. and hopefully surpass you (on the harder levels), so you don't get that Economic victory that you were aiming for. IMO it would be easier (if I was the AI in your example) to leech off your civ and try and surpass them economically than to try and beat my brains out at your doorstep trying to weaken you.

I think that you're much smarter than the AI, so I can't hope for such a strategic AI in civ 3. But, as long as there is hope! Civ 3 is probably going to be the best game ever anyway! I'm just happy about the fact that there will be borders in the game (I hate when the AI builds cities in my territories!)

quote: Originally posted by kolpo on 04-13-2001 07:21 PM minor civilization can partialy solve this. Because minor civilizations can't most likely win themself with economic, diplomatic or space race won't they see your growing power as much as a treath as the major ones, they may even try to ally you or even form a federation with you so that they can share in your victory and wealth.

I can't say I like to ally with anyone! They usually wants to much from me, and I get nothing in return! But if there are minor tribes, they'll probably don't have the balls to demand techs & cash all the time.

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 04-14-2001 03:21 PM try ctp2. it's AIs has been accused of doing the exact opposite of what you describe

See that is kinda what I am afraid of. While having war declared upon you by everybody for no reason sucks ass, it is the primary method movement in the latter part of the game. I am at least glad that the developers of ctp2 recognized the problem, but not filling the void with anything isnt going to be any better. I mean take a look at real life, everybody hates America/Americans, but there is no all out war. Skirmishes, limited conflicts, and clandestine behind the scenes espionage are the order of the day. This is what I hope we will see a greater emphasis on in civ III.

In other games, though, I got too powerful for even the AIs combined efforts to stop and the game just got really boring since I knew I was gonna win easily, even though I gave all the comps all the tech I had and lots of money. After playing for 10-20 hours (I can't keep track of time spent on civ games ), its a loss if the game becomes an assured win. The most fun part of the game is the modern age and to miss the heat of that because you become too powerful takes all the fun away.