Here I go.

Every time in the endgame I’m vranticly building new cities to increase my endscore. IMO it’s a kinds of strange that when your building city-improvements, your also building things which in realtime would have by far lost their function.

Just think of it, a city being build around 2000 ad. and the first thing being build in it is something you can associate with ancient polytheisme, in monotheistic terms "heathenish idolatry", that is . . . . an ancient temple.
Then you build a granary (if you don’t have the Pyramids), a marketplace and a library. All okay, but when you look at the citypicture you see these ancient, antique and no modern buildings.
Your population grows and to let it expand above cityseize 8 you must build an . . . . . . aquaduct. "Yeah, sorry, but our watercompany is still using roman engineers".
Your population needs to be entertained, and you build a . . . . colosseum. "Oh well, Ajax, Feyenoord, F.C.Haarlem ?! . . , sorry, never heard of football, but we’ve got a bit more bloody entertainment for you, and how about the roman engineers ?".

Etc..

What your population wants/needs (in 2000 ad. !!) is:
work (factory/mfg-plant)
education (school/library)
sanity (waterworks/sewer system)
health & social care (hospital/social services)
consumption (supermarket/marketplace)
entertainment (broadcasting station/stadium)
a place to worship (church/cathedral)

It shouldn’t be possible to built certain city-improvements after they have "expired".
It should be possible (a bit like in COLONIZATION) to upgrade/extend buildings.
It should also be possible to maintain the old buildings and to build new modern ones besides the old ones, that costs but would give you a tradebonus because of touristtrade

Just an idea for a possible chronological buildinghierarchy
tempel > church/monastery > cathedral
workshop > mill > factory > mfg plant
market > shop > supermarket
colosseum > theater > stadium + broadcasting station
monastery > hospice > hospital > academic medical centre

Eg replace Aqueduct with waterworks - as distinct from sewer systems. Replace Coliseums with Stadia. Replace Marketplaces with Shopping Malls.

Somehow 'On The Waterfront' just wouldn't look right with dockside granaries.

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch on 12-07-2000 11:53 AM It seems to be a cosmetic problem that would be solved by replacements. If afer a certain tech is obtained just have the computer automatically change (I hesitate to say upgrade) Gameplay is unaffected if the effects don't change.

It could be made more than a cosmetic problem.
Now in CIV we have the situation that many city-improvements have an accumulating effect on one-another. That principle should be partially abandoned. It’s been said before CIV as we’ve got it now, knows more or less only progression, development moves only forward.
Instead we should have a situation in which city-improvements have, besides the accumulative effect, a substitutive, supplementary, reductive or maybe even counterproductive or other effects on one-another.

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch on 12-07-2000 11:53 AM Eg replace Aqueduct with waterworks - as distinct from sewer systems. Replace Coliseums with Stadia. Replace Marketplaces with Shopping Malls.

This could be the situation.
The effect of a colosseum (circus as the Romans said would be a better term) could be undone by f.i. theology.
In lots of European cities Roman theatre’s/circusses have been demolished in the early middle-ages. Their stones were used to build houses, bridges, churches or whatever. It’s only very sporadic that a roman theater is still in use.
A temple and a church/cathedral should have counterproductive effects.
A guildhall reduces the effect of a factory and vice-versa.
A powerstation and a factory or mfg-plant are supplementary (as we’ve got now in the game)
A moderntime stadium could reduce the effect of a cathedral and vice-versa. And with a broadcasting station even make it obsolete. (over the last twenty years I’ve seen dozens of churches in the city where I live, being either demolished or turned into, yes !, chique appartementbuildings). Sportingfacilities have competition from internet. Etc.

There are lots of possibilities here which would make the game more interesting.

The temple could quietly have become a community centre, playground or something else once cathedrals are available to support the religious aspects of city life. An even more flexible game could even have several different buildings deriving from the same tech i.e. European city graphics = Christian church, Classical = Temple, Arabic = Mosque, Oriental = Pagoda. The buildings would have the same effect so this is a lot of extra graphics just for "flavour" but it is touches like these which turn an unoriginal game theme into a classic in its own right.

quote: BTW Shopping Malls, from my dutch point of view, is a typicall american notion. We don't have them in the Netherlands like you have them in the US. But it's certainly a good one !!

There are quite a few improvements that are culturally oriented. If you want it to be American you go to the Factory Outlets or the MegaMarkets. Whereas Malls and Thoroughfares are quite global.

PS I'm English.

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold on 12-08-2000 12:18 PM The reason to avoid superceding temples with cathedrals ratehr than allowing the two to have cumulative effects is the construction cost. Even a modern starter city has not got the production capacity to build a cathedral unaided in a short enough time frame. The cheap buildings are still desirable.

Okay ! good reasoning.

quote: Originally posted by Tical_2000 on 12-11-2000 09:57 PM Oh God!!! What is the big deal?

Tical, please read my reply in the thread about spaceinvasion of mars etc.