I think I like the Alpha Centauri style of choosing the type of government. In fact, in Alpha Centauri, one can choose the type of government, the form of economic system as well as the vaue a society holds.

For example, one can choose a Democratic government, a Central planning economy and a society whose value is based on acquisition of knowelege. One can also choose a dictator government, a free market economy and a society whose value is based on acquistion of money.

Civ III should follow something like this. One can choose democracy, monarchy, and feudalism and theocracy for government. One can choose free market, communism, traditionalism for econ. Then one can choose Confuciousm, enviornmentalism and other types of philosophy for value. The different combination of government/econ/values will generate different effect for the empire as a whole. A society based on democracy will have a free, less corrupted government where literatures, education, science, and arts flourishes and people are happy. If capitalism is adopted in combination with the already existing deomcracy, scienctific research, wealth will soar. But crime however will increas as well as damages to environment. However, this increase in crime and environment may be offset by adoption of Confuciosm values, which stress less on material gains, and accentuates morale, and condemn acts of stealing...etc.

Now, I think government/econ/values shouldn't be something that can be used through research only. There should still be research done just so that certain type of government/econ/values can be part of the variety of choice from which one can select. However, contacts with different civilization should aid in improving research in this area.

For example, if China trades with the Roman empire, Chinese traders may bring back ideas of Democracy back to the Middel Kingdom. If more and more interactions between China and Roman empire take place, then eventually, democracy will be disvoered without the need of scientsts to research on it. But if there are existence of interactions between China and Rome, and that this interaction is very very limited, then Chinese researchers who began doing researches on Democracy will take less time to discover democracy than it would take to discover something else. For example, it takes 10 turns to discover a new technology. But interactions between Rome and China has been such that when research on democracy begins, it will take only seven turns for it to be discovered.

Now what I am about to suggest is really minor. I am not being picky, I just think it may add a little more realism.

When a technology about the use of....oh lets say, computer is discovered, the screen that pops out to inform us of the discovery of computer often says "Chinese scientsts discover computer" And if Democracy is discovered, the screen that pops out will say "Chinese scientsts discover Democracy" I thought that's kind of......werid. So I would suggest that whenever a technology/science is discovered, the screen that informs of these discovery would say "Chinese scientists discover this technology" And if the disovery is a form of government, value, or a set of ideas, then the screen that pops out that informs us of this discovery would say something like " Chinese philosopher writes a book on Democracy" That makes things a little more interesting. But again, it is such a minor thing that it wouldn't matter.

Here is what I think.

Governments:

Start: Tribal | Despotism | Monarchy | Republic | Democracy | Theocracy | Dictatorship

Economy:

Start: Simple | Feudalism | Capitalism | Communism | Eco-Friendly

Values:

I don't see the point of having city-state democracy a la classical Athens, unless the whole city model is going to be revamped

Despotism should have a different name, since it clearly simulates a more decentralized system than monarchy. And there should be some kind of cost associated with adopting monarchy (bureaucratic expenses?), because as it is, there is absolutely no contest between it and "despotism."

As for the modern period, Democracy, Communism, and Fundamentalism cover almost everything the real world has experimented with. (it's my opinion, though, that only minor civs should be allowed to be fundamentalist) Socialism, as previous posters have defined it, seems to be just a high-domestic spending and peaceful variation on Democracy. Perhaps some kind of party politics model for Democracies would provide all the depth you are looking for.

How far each citizen succeeds is dependant on the intellect of the individual. This would greatly increase science output but less money (due to the fact that the system isn't based on market forces).

It would create more happy citizens in the sense that they can now achieve their potential, but it leaves behind a number of disgruntled, less intelligent citizens.

Values
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 11-25-2000 06:14 PM Values=Religion - Not always so... Values - For the People/For Yourself/For Your Country/For Science/For Money/For Luxury

Yes, but most values start from ones religion