I would like to see the idea revived in Civ-3. I think it should because it have a nice built-in anti-ICS effect. What do you guys think?

- Food-related improvements minimizes increasingly the effects of regurlary reoccuring famines. The more you have of them, the more famines are prevented.

- Health-related improvements (including Sewer-systems) minimizes increasingly the effects of regurlary reoccuring plagues. The more you have of them, the more plagues are prevented.

Its important that these disasters are *regurlary* reoccuring (every xx turn) in for example 10-20% of all your cities (selected by chance). Just like in historic reality. Othervise, most cheat-player are likely to just reload a previously saved game.

Weather service = helps with modern ships and planes travel (increase trade revenue, because of reduced loss of cargo/passengers)

More improvements can follow...

Here's the list in my vision:

Riots (though it's not a natural catastrophe)- Temple, Colloseum, Cathedral, Police Station
Fires- Fire Dept.
Famines- Granary, Supermarket (completely eliminates famines, also adds +gold)
Plagues (-1 pop)- Aqueduct, Sewer system, Hospital (I think Firaxis shouldn't limit the growth of cities to 8 or 12, but increases the chances of diseases if the city has no aqueduct and/or sewer system)
Floods- Weather services (also increases trade revenue because of reduced loss of cargo/passengers, but only if you have harbour or airport in the city!!!). I'm sure there's more here, especially for ancient times, but right now I can't figure out what
Pollution- Recycling Center, Mass Transit, Fusion Plant. I think pollution should also increases the chances for floods, diseases, tornadoes.

Other unstoppable disasters should be implemented and have things that lessen the blow, ex:
Hurricane-Damages everything in x amount of area, causes x amount of damage to population
Weather service reduces pop decrease to about 5%

Tornado-Desrtoys random buildings in one city(only one or two) as well as x amount of damage to pop
Weather service reduces pop decrease to .1%

Earthquake-damages buildings, causes x pop decrease(greater damages near source)
Improved building design reduces damages to 5% of total damage that would have been done.

Volcano-destroys up to 1 city, terrain=lava rock
Volcano detection systems allow pop to flee city before the volcano erupts, new city apears outside of reach of volcano w/99% of pop as first city or population in nearest city increases by the population of the city destroyed-1%

Tsuname-1 island is no more or a groop of ships in x area are destroyed or damage done to one costal city
Tsuname detection(weather service) allows ships/citizens to retreat before any damage is done.

Anyway, as i already implied - the idea of catastrophes/nature disasters can be implemented both in a bad, and in a good way:

The bad way: Random, unpredictable and unpreventable disasters. Such random acts of the AI often *only* leads to player-frustration and that reloading-a-saved-game routine.

The good way: non-random, predictable AND to a high degree *preventable* disasters.
The only random aspect should be that you dont know in which 10-20% of the improvement-lacking cities, its going to happen. (By the way: is 10-20% a good ratio?)

How often these disasters reoccurs should be dependent on game-levels and game-eras - thats obvious.

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 11-16-2000 11:31 AM comments, suggestions?

Pretty much is ALREADY available, but...
GLOBAL-WARMING > tilt on Earth axis device!
OZONE-THINNING > O3 silos in the stratosphere!

Way out of technologically feasible developments.

Fear the most citizens... ET is coming to town?
UFO's-INVADING > radar stations!
BIOWARFARE-SPREADING > hospitals for the sick!

Naturally occuring catastrophic events are part of history, humanely invoqued ones are tougher to handle.

Improvements for the future and beyond, that's what we need in a game... anything less is pointless.

Weather related catastrophes might not be stopped (unless we get weather control), but life and properties losses could be reduced by effective weather servives.

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 11-16-2000 11:00 PM after discovering some future tech like tectonic plate control, or something[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited November 16, 2000).]

have you, by any chance, read Arthur C. Clarke's Ritcher 10?

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 11-17-2000 07:13 PM Good idea, but sometimes a flood is 'inside' the city.

I think what he meant was that back in civ1 city walls prevented floods.

What, no Barracks to stop pirate attacks? Not that I mind not losing my 3-turns-'til-finished wonder from a random event!

EROSION & SOIL DECOMPOSITION
Agriculture, especially in ancient times, very often has suffered severely from structural (!!) erosion in all its manifestations, because of insufficient agricultural merits/habits. Erosion has always been, and still is a very difficult phenomenon to handle. Soil decomposition is mainly caused by insufficient ways of irrigation, which causes salination of the soil; or for lack of (enough) fertilizer which causes soil-exhaustion.

Three modern-time examples.
In the late twenties and early thirties the prairiestates In the US suffered from what is called the dustbowl, caused by a combination of drought and a wrong agricultural habit. Luckily enough ways have been found to solve this problem, sometimes this meant that the former intensive use had to be brought to more moderate ways of using the land.
Parts of the former Soviet Union are seriously crippled because of soilsalination due to insufficient ways of irrigation. In parts of Spain and California this also is a subject of constant concern.
In parts of the west of the Netherlands, in the "peatpolders" of Holland and Utrecht we have to drain the water out of the fields and then pump the water out of the polders to control its waterlevel, so that tractors can ride over the meadows. By doing so over the last 70 years groundlevel has fallen 1 meter because of the oxidation of the peat (that’s also a form of erosion), which calls for renewed lowering of the waterlevel, which causes more oxidation, which etc. Uptill now no solution for this problem has been found. Usually polders which really have become useless to farmers (just too soppy) are made natureresorts . . . . .

In ancient times erosion & soildecomposition has caused whole communities/civs/colonies to collapse. There is a theory which claims that parts of the Mediterranean are still suffering from the ecological hazards caused by erosion because of too intensive timberlogging (f.i. to build fleets) by the greecs and romans. This also should have happened to indian tribes in New Mexico in the late middle-ages (12th to 14th century (?! I don't exactly know when, but around that time).

You would "experience" erosion & soil exhaustion in the game by at first accidental and slowly but steadily over a longer period of time dwindling agricultural output. When these problems have become structural it should be so that the solution, most certainly in the beginning of the game, lies a few advances away. OUCH . . . . This could cause cities to diminish, or that its social structure collapses (the less agricultural output, the less production, the less luxuries etc.). It may even cause a city to . . . . disappear. OOPS . . . .
Crop rotation may be an answer to your problem, artificial fertilizer.

I can think of a few others of these structrual setbacks in the game. This is only one idea about agricultural setbacks, but why not have them in the field of hygiene, economy, sociology, science’s etc.