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- Biddles

A permanent space station should probably be a pre-requisite, but that should be a simple (still really expensive) project (not many parts assembly like real ISS Alpha or the Starship itself).

I'll like to have to chose form different project in advance (not mid building change of mind from a full beast to the mini version, just to cope with a quick adversary) and an advanced panel that will show the starship parts needed vs. already under costruction, to avoid my usual mess with double production and last minute missing vital parts

About Moon, Mars and asteroids bases, they can be in game but as great projects/wonders, not as an end of CIV 3 game itself. Don't forget an Alpha centauri mission become a need to flee from a Earth in serius trouble (see the SMAC story background).
Mars is not really an option, a Chiron (AC planet) could be a better hope (then may be not, but you don't know at the time ).

Of course something is missing: none will probably lauch a starship full of people before automatic probe will sent back enough info, but we can't have all right!

And I question the point about AC being used as an evacuation point. The fact is that unless the Sun is blowing up, Mars could be a safe haven too. And even the Sun won't be a threat for another billion years or so. We don't even have the resources to send 100 people to Mars right now let alone send the rest of mankind to Alpha Centauri.

That would be the effect of evacuating to Mars. It is too close to earth and any conflict would enevitably spill over to Mars. For example, the colonists would still have nationalistic ties and would support that government ....

And what disaster could POSSIBLY be big enough that Mars would not be a good life boat? An asteroid? Nope. A nuclear holocaust? Nope. And how will nationalistic feelings be stopped by going the extra step to Alpha Centauri??

Don't get me wrong, mars should be included in the game, just not in place of AC. Since civ1 it has been AC and AC is the logical choice for the storyline anyway. Maybe include mars as a trial colony, something for the scientists and engineers to cut there teeth on.

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- Biddles

Obviously, all these should be "do-able" as an alliance, speeding the process up.

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- Biddles

quote: Originally posted by Dom Pedro II on 10-29-2000 12:33 AM And what disaster could POSSIBLY be big enough that Mars would not be a good life boat? An asteroid? Nope. A nuclear holocaust? Nope. And how will nationalistic feelings be stopped by going the extra step to Alpha Centauri?? .

If it was mars instead of the AC system, it would destroy the storyline about losing contact with humans on Earth -you could see Earth using a powerful telescope and so would see it getting nuked (or whatever happened to it). You would also be able to get back to Earth.

I love the going to Mars BEFORE AC idea though. Running two planets at once would be interesting.

A Mars colonization project would be cool, but not as an end-game wonder.

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"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you"

It's true, trying to colonize Alpha Centauri before Mars would be an incorrect move. I REALLY liked the system used in the 1st game of Outpost. I had so much to choose from. I felt like it was all up to me to do it right. If I did it wrong, then I screwed it up for everyone. That's the sort of pressure I like and I think a leader should feel.

Anyway, it should be costly, it should take a while, and it should cause a world-wide influence. And it should be MARS! THEN, 100 years later? Send a few million people to Alpha Centauri on massive transport ships. Which would be harder than Mars, more costly, take longer and cause an even bigger world-wide influence. How's that sound for a game ending, rather than a big sign sayin "congratulations you landed on alpha centauri"

As far as cost is concerned, the more complex the mission, the more it cost. Also the more you explore, the less it costs to reach other destinations.

In real life, space exploration has resulted in numerous scientific advances that have not only made space exploration itself more routine, but has helped people on earth as well. That's why as soon your Civ discovers the secret of Space Flight, the science rate should increase, as well as when you inhabit another planet. And as you explore you will get certain techs which will allow you to eventually reach Alpha Centauri.

Moons and planets that are gaseous and/or too hot, which makes them simply inhabitable (like Jupiter and Venus, for example), should be excluded.

And last but not least, Alpha Centauri can be included as the ultimate goal to win the game.

quote: Originally posted by Tim White on 10-24-2000 12:46 AM I would like your space ship to go to mars, and actually go for a reason! When you reach, you can start colonizing it. And then you can start building spaceship transport ships that can transport people imbetween planets.

You need Future Tech 5 and Future Tech 11 before you can build spaceship transport ships or was it Future Tech 6 and Future Tech 14???? Why didn't Firaxis name these????

Here are my arguments:

- Realism, Governments actually plan to begin colonize mars within the next 100 years.

- Experience, there is no way possible for mankind to colonize other solar systems without the experience and knwledge developed from colonizing Mars.

- Even if we don't know about existence of habitable planets in AC we certainly know about Mars.

- It feels silly, sending a colony to AC, when we don't even has discovered the technology to actually spot a habitable planet there. I mean, does a government send colonies to unexplored terrain?

- The cost of sending a colony to AC is maybe more than hundred times more expensive than colonize Mars, and Even Mars is so hard to colonize that experts estimate that it will take hundred of years before we actually have a real colony on Mars.

- Todays spaceship take more than three years to come to Mars, the time spent for coming to AC is endlessly more.

Firaxis should smooth the progress a bit, just without messing with a new whole game of Mars terraforming in between.

Space station, Moon/Mars/asteroids belt bases are all things that can be simulated (with limits) by wonders/tech advances, maybe unit (space station) too.
Realism and playability must cross here, IMO.

The sad trouth is that in SMAC the late part of game (and tech tree) is usually unused, because you win way too early. Keeping the game balanced for so long will be a main Firaxis target.

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 11-07-2000 11:40 AM Once again, I agree it's a bit strange we jump straight from Apollo project wonder to Starship Unity. Firaxis should smooth the progress a bit, just without messing with a new whole game of Mars terraforming in between. Space station, Moon/Mars/asteroids belt bases are all things that can be simulated (with limits) by wonders/tech advances, maybe unit (space station) too. Realism and playability must cross here, IMO. The sad trouth is that in SMAC the late part of game (and tech tree) is usually unused, because you win way too early. Keeping the game balanced for so long will be a main Firaxis target.

I would love to see Space station etc.