Think about it! If only 20 (or more) of us Civ propellerheads contribute with perhaps 2-3 really nice looking well-ballanced maps, we should end up with 40-60 earth-quality maps.

(I thought that Firaxis had hired new graphics artists or something - it's on their page - shouldn't they at least know how to design maps?)

The problem of formless amoeba-shaped continents sprinkled with random, sometimes incompatible terrain-types is one that is the easiest to remedy. I want Civ-3 continents that actually LOOKS good, with challengeing topographys - not a hopeless ones.

quote: The problem of formless amoeba-shaped continents sprinkled with random, sometimes incompatible terrain-types is one that is the easiest to remedy.

That's a bit harsh - apprently (could be from the manual, can't remember where I got it from) in SMAC Firaxis worked on the terrain generation so that it was realistic. Like deserts would form to the east(/west?) of mountains 'cause all the clouds would deposit the rain on the other side, which would have lush grasslands. I'm sure Firaxis would work quite hard in this aspect.

quote: ...put in the best of the player-created maps?

Hasn't game publishers traditionally done this not in the first release of a game, but rather, in expansion packs or "gold" packs? For example, wasn't this done in one of the Civ2 expansions ("best of the net" senarios). So I doubt they'll do this suggestion with the intial release of civ3.

*grumbles about work*

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 09-26-2000 01:23 PM Computer-generated maps can never be as good as handmade maps.

They could be a LOT better than they are now, though. Don't give them a reason to neglect this aspect of the game

We will have those hand-made maps anyway, of course.

A map-generator is 100% non-experiencing. It cant look from above and think - "Hey, these continents are pretty eart-like, altrough differently shaped. And the terrain-distrubution is also rather earth-like". You can hardly ask a AI-programmer to incorporate such subjective humanlike factors into dry programming code.

*tars and feathers Ultra*

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 10-01-2000 07:12 AM I dont agree. If very hard, if not almost impossible to translate subjective factors like "good-looks" into expressions, conditions and variables.

Actually, it isn't. There is a vast knowledge about what shapes are appealing to the human eye.

quote: A map-generator is 100% non-experiencing. It cant look from above and think - "Hey, these continents are pretty earth-like, altrough differently shaped. And the terrain-distrubution is also rather earth-like".

If you generate continents, mountain ridges, seas, rivers and terrain like they came to be in the real world, the result will be halfway Earth-like. Certainly much better than in Civ II. There will be enough parameters to experiment with until you like the results.

Usually none fan player can build a map before game is released because none has the tech info about the map, nor the standard graphics to copy from.

I suppose a developer team pressed to release the game for "gold" while ironing as many bugs they can, wouldn't have time to produce a user friendly map editor, without mentioning they may have to change some map attribute to manage some last time function or avoid some bug.

That said, when and if Firaxis will be ready in time, playing with the maps before the game release can be funny. I will like to see not only proper Earth map (or detailed regional map, as Europe), but also a Mars map with ocean added as it could has been, plenty of time ago (think about a S.F. mod where you develop life to Mars, then the planet become inabitable and you must build a fleet of ship to reach the Earth instead of Alpha Centauri ).

Why am I seeing such rubbish again!?

Who in the neck should care if Firaxis release early a tool to build map? I'm sure map making is not the core of CIV 3 game, so there isn't advantage for other companies.

If you can see the map (not the full editor that can let you build full mod, (units, cities, event triggers and the like), what's the problem?

If you are so afraid of secrets, give us at least the rule to draw coloured gif that a (Firaxis internal keeped) converter can use as input to build a proper 3D map (like SMAC, surely better), changing shade of colors into proper tiles draw.

Rubbish? Stupid? Well, may be working for free to help Firaxis making a better game is stupid, if this is the fan reaction!

that does sound weird .

do you know that that about 1 billion years ago the world was one large continent ? ... talking about "unearth like " maps . ..... in 150 million years a large part of the continents will reunite in the northen hemisphere , including antratica and everything...

I would be glad to see weather , though...

Dalgetti

But I see the problem for random map is not to be equal to actual tectonic distribution, but if the terrain sequence is credible enough: desert right near grassland, high mountain on a shore... not feeling very realistic, I must admit.

BTW, I usually prefer random map instead of pre-defined, because I love to discover the terrain, while a defined map isn't a surprise at all.

Well, thats why we need LOTS of premade maps - preferably about 100+ maps. Once you played the 100:th map, you already forgotten how the topographic looked like in map nr.1 .

We dont lose out anything by promoting this idea. Why some here are so blas´e and negative about it is beyond me. I agree with Empress: "Sounds like a win-win situation to me!".

They're not as stupid as you making them out to be! Or hopefully you just don't understand. (Feel offended now? Feel like you must post against me now?)

They would *PRETTY MUCH* have to FINISH the game, before they could even consider doing something like that!

Sure! I would love to see a screenshot, or get a peice of Civ3 asap in any shape or form. But it's that temptation that is going to ruin it all.

*Prays to God* Let this idea die, the embarrasment is too much!

I am talking about an 400-500K byte freeware-release from Firaxis with blocky one-coloured squares for each Civ-3 terrain-type (my own quote: "primitive concept Civ-3 mapeditor"). Firaxis could then, then the time is ripe, convert those blocky premature maps to real Civ-3 looking maps.
In terms of interface-design this freeware-release dont have to look ANYTHING at all like the real thing.
In fact, working with the old Civ-2 map-editor would be enough, if Firaxis would go out and say: "We are going to include a conversion-tool from the mapeditor in Civ-2, to the mapeditor in Civ-3".

Now, read above and compare it with your statement below. Cant you see how overreactive and ridicoules your fears are?

The biggest one being they would have to predict what the interface will be like when its finished. And since I don't think they can, I don't think they will waste their time doing something like this.

Frankly, we dont know anything yet, even about the most basic Civ-3 design specs. There have been suggestions about hexagon-tiles, SMAC-style maps and whatnot. God knows what map-ideas the Firaxis-team finally decides to implement.
Lets at least wait for that basic preview on www.firaxis.com/civ3 that Firaxis Dan Magaha promised would roll out "real soon now".
After that i am gonna send them my suggestion. Try to live with it .

By the way: Is there anyone here who knows if there have been suggestions about additional terrain-types in Civ-3 (not special recourses - just new terrain-types)?

../../Forum6/HTML/001493-2.html

quote: Other additions: *River delta - for land near large rivers, bays etc. Provides extra food obviously. *High tides - for seas squares, harnessing tidal energy on the square will give a bonous. *Coral reef - extra marine life?, economy bonus (more tourists) *Freshwater sea - was a special square in SMAC, but should be made a normal terrain type.

quote: Some more map squares: *sea caves/underground caves - both provides extra money because of tourism. *rock formations - (like the good ol' rock in the middle of Australia) - provides more tourism again. Also, the forests should be different in different parts of the world (they could just look different but do the smae thing) - eg rainforests, pine forests, bamboo forests, conifer forests, blah blah. There could also icebergs (not actually a square, but a unit of sorts), like I mentioned in my thread.

A bit related: ../../Forum6/HTML/001455.html

quote: Some ideas for new terrain related stuff: Ocean-based volcanoes occassionally forming islands. Bushfires burning through forests in equitorial regions...