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Topic: Tribes v. 0.1 |  |
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TacticalGrace Settler Cambridge, England Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 08:03
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Having small nations like Scottish, Irish, Nicarguans, Toltecs, Mayans etc as was implemented in CTP is all very nice in theory. After all, historically these groups all existed and were historically important. But having played CTP games where you end up against an Irish Empire, for example, it really does not have the same impact as a good old fashioned game of CIV2 with a showdown between England and Germany, or Rome and Greece.So how do we resolve this? we want to have a starting Civ name e.g.: Britons, Romans, Egyptians, Greeks these at key points in time can either split or simply change name. A split would have to be caused by either extreme unhappiness (CTP) or capitol capture (Civ2). A name change could be activated by a tech (ancient->renaissence->modern age) or when a nation is captured so now Britons -> English -> British Roman -> Italian Aztec -> Mexican I would argue that there really shouldn't be an "American" civ. Some sort of Native American maybe. Of course a civil war in the British, French or Spanish civs would lead to a new civ of the Americans. Of course I'm sure there are loads of people out there who like to play the Americans in Civ and you can go ahead and do that. I just find it a bit unsatisfying to meet a civ in 2000bc which calls themselves the Americans led by Abraham Lincoln. Possibly some notion of Enthnicity within a civ should be included (Just for the sake of flavour though, only affecting naming and unit/city style). So invaded cities would retain there ethnic origins and get absorbed into the invading civ. As far as "barbarians" are concerned, please be aware that this was actually a roman term for just about anyone who wasn't Roman (All they heard of the foreign language was a "bar bar" noise). It was rather equivalent to the Japanese "Gajin", the Hebrews "Gentile" the Americans "johnny foreigners" in that other peoples were assumed uncultured. Of course an untrue premise but barbarian came to mean that anyway. In civ2 game terms, warlike minor civs are modelled as the barbarians, peaceful minor civs as goody huts. |
bagdar Chieftain Turkey Jan 2001
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posted January 23, 2001 11:26
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quote:
 I too care about historical accuracy in Civ, but I have to disagree on this point, because once again, we have hit the border between simhistory and civ game. It's the same question as whether it is historically accurate for you to live for 6000 years in your long and prosperous reign. Sure, in 4000BC most of the original Civs don't sound right, but dividing the game in two is not a good idea either. If you ask me, (and why would anyone ask me, anyway ) I'd either keep the distribution of the civs as it is, or abandon the current naming of Civs altogether and give them generic names, based on geography. In fact, in the first case, if you use your imagination, you'd see that there's no need to increase the number of civilizations or worry about the history of nationalities: we have 3 civs from Africa, one from the south, one from the north west and one from the north east; we've got two middle eastern civs, 3 mediterraneans, 4 west European civs, 1 east European Civ, 1 civ from central asia, 1 from south asia and 2 from east asia, as well as 2 north Americans and one central American civ. That covers much more than the places where civilization actually sprung. (well, civ is not always played on the earth map, but the Civs it employs are real terrestrial civs. )--Besides, this also explains why unalterable unique civs is such nonsense.-- Why keep on expanding the list, or divide the game into modern/ancient versions? I remember that there was a forum with a family tree of some sort of nationalities. I don't think we need this. However, now that the website has declared a new feature in Civ games, that of nationality, we may expect exciting new things to do with national identities etc. Let's wait and see.
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I wrote this under the Modern/Ancient Civs topic. I think your idea of Civs changing names is interesting. I always felt that something was wrong with the English popping out of the Zulu when you capture their capital. Maybe there could be a solution to this as well. ** By the way, now that this topic is brought up again, let me make a comment: I saw both the Seljuks and the Ottomans as absolutely necessary civs on the previous page. Well, they are only dynasties, and the 'nationality' factor in the Ottomans is very very low (none, if you don't count the very beginning -when they were inhabiting a town under the rule of the Rum Seljuks and the very end -when they had to come up with ideologies to hold the crumbling state together-). Anyway, as I said before, the original Civilization tribes suffice for me. Nothing more. (there could be new features, though ) [This message has been edited by bagdar (edited January 23, 2001).] |
Grumbold Warlord London, UK Mar 2000
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posted January 23, 2001 12:04
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I think their time would be best spent creating a basic small list of civilisations but put clear instructions into the manual for how to add your own favourites (with all the necessary national characteristics, if applicable) into the database. No fixed list or fixed characteristics will ever please everyone. When playing a random map I far prefer to play the Grumites than any historic nation, and similarly would prefer random names for my opponents. Dividing nations into major and minor is even more subjective and often based on historical twists of fate that could easily have gone the other way. There was even a period when the Scots were an important nation  | |