What do you think of the Picture? Will 3-D land ruin Civ3? Don't worry i created the pic not offical!

Probably the map will be something like SMAC, but you'll be able to rotate it 360 degrees, and possibly change the angle as well.

Personally, I'd enjoy a really attractivly drawn map along the lines of the very first Civilization. I like the overview, as though it's a real map you're looking at, better then the isometric POV. But I know Firaxis would be crazy to do that in the modern age of 3D hype. Still, I do like to entertain the fantasy that it will be included as an alternate view-mode.

Second - I thought SMAC had very appropriate graphics. Civ3 should look like that, but obviously the terrain would be coloured a bit more like good old Earth.

quote: Originally posted by Theben on 06-11-2000 10:47 PM The 3-d of SMAC is an abomination..

I agree, the SMAC map did not look realistic.

quote: Originally posted by Theben on 06-11-2000 10:47 PM ONLY if they use a "battle map" should Firaxis even consider 3-d.

Can't some of you people comprehend 3D?

I have a really tough time explaining it to women, not one can grab the concept of it.

Is it true, that some people just don't 'get it'?

Check for the FOUR awards for Black and White. Most notably the LAST award for Black and White. I dare you to post what the catagory was for it.

As for a word for only seeing what's right in front of you, you might be thinking of myopic.

And I think most folks here actually can see a wide variety of view points. They simply aren't myopiclly and fanatically fixated on making Civ3's graphics just like Black & Whites.

Cool it, eh? Everyone has their own opinion and folks aren't stupid or incapable of `getting it' if they think that the graphics used in games like Black & White aren't really appropriate for a turn based strategy game. Such a game would no doubt be quite entertaining, but it would not, by any stretch of the imagination, bear much resemblence to the mechanics and gameplay of the Civilization series; and if you give those up, you might as well be making an entirely different game, with no relation to Civ other then name.

Loki - God loves you

Why can't you dumbasses pick it out? Why can't you read between my freakin lines?

You actualy THINK that by giving Civ3 a 3D world will totaly make it NOT civilization?

I'm gonna say this one more freakin time.

**A 3D WORLD IS CLOSER TO A GAME OF CIVILIZATION THAN A LIFELESS 2D MAP!**

READ IT! And for crying out loud, UNDERSTAND IT! It's not hard!

If Civilization 3 doesn't have an enourmous amount of graphical work, then it's just a Civ 2.5. Simple as that.

Gawd, CTP was a new game, but all it really had was a few extra playthings, you were all still basicaly doing the same old things. It's pointless carrying on the same way, because simply, it does get boring after a while.

Chess is not Civilization, get that between your eyes. Look up Civilization in the dictionary, its much more interesting than Chess. Is there even a game yet where you are actualy playing a true game of Civilization, where its NOT looking like a chess game? No, so how can any of you judge what hasn't happened yet?

It seems that you are the one with the blinders.

Many people, such as Thubun and myself, have pointed out the sheer scale of Civ makes it impossible to have a 3D map. The highest mountain range is the Himalayas, with Mt. Everest at ~8900m. That' not bad, but if each square is 20 km wide, you ain't going to have any satisfactory 3D effect whatsoever. Most of the earth will be flat.

I'll only come here for the info now.

However, I think that if you are going to do it then you better do it right and make sure that the UI isnt diminished. I dont believe that Firaxis will be able to pull it off and maybe should stick to what they can achieve.

quote: Originally posted by L o k i on 06-14-2000 04:19 AM but I'm going to leave THIS community [This message has been edited by L o k i (edited June 14, 2000).]

uuuuu now that made me shake .....

btw all you other guys : you are completely right . civ isn't about fancy grafix . its about the... well I even cant explain it . that CIV feeling... it is so much fun . even when you lose. it's fun . just the proccess. that's all .

P.S. and what's wrong with chess ? 3 billion ppl ( who know the basic rules )around the world cant go wrong.

quote: Eat shit!

quote: Why can't you dumbasses pick it out?

When I joined up I thought the faq or something said that there was an auto filter at this forum?

quote: I'm not giving up, but I'm going to leave THIS community, because it just doesn't seem productive and positive enough.

I've only been saying this for the past what, MONTH? for the total reason for GAMEPLAY.

Haven't you played any games like Ground Control or Earth 2150, Ultra? I highly suggest you do, just so you can get a 'taste' of the 'gameplay'.

quote: Originally posted by L o k i on 06-15-2000 03:55 AM Okay, I swear it, this is the last time, I swear it.

Swear? No, I can't believe you'd be swearing, Loki.

quote: Eat shit! Fifty billion flies can't be wrong!

Elvis Presley once released a greatest hits album, called 'Fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong!'. Shortly after that, some punk band named their album 'Eat shit! Fifty billion flies can't be wrong!'. It's just a hilarious counter to the argument that something must necessarilly be true if only enough people think it is.

Loki, if you can't handle other people's opinions, perhaps leaving is a good idea. Whether or not you've described your ideas before, you aren't impressing anyone here now (other than giving them a bad impression of you).

I stand behind my previous reasons, but if you want others, how about this:

I don't get it. It seems to me that you aren't responding to others' sensible critiques. You are just repeating yourself over and over again. That don't work.

I know how the engine works. I know you can zoom into the map to look at the finer details. I looked at your URL. It's a fantastic piece of work.

So what?

Have you played Risk 2? During the battles you get to see litte soldiers shooting each other and falling down dead. It is all great fun for the first two or three times, then you'll want to find a way to turn that off.

If you can explain how a 3-D interface on the main screen adds to gameplay, be my guest.

I'm beta testing Dark Reign II right now, which is more like Starcraft than Civilization II, but it's still a strategy game in 3D. My initial response was: "Wow, this is so cool!". 360 degree camera movement in every direction, awesome graphics, everything...except for depth. It seems the designers spent so much time doing the 3D graphics that gameplay elements take a back seat. Frankly, I'm too bored of the game (after 1 week only!) now.

Not only did gameplay begin to lack, but the 3D became very annoying quite quickly. I try to move units to counter-attack, but the hills are blocking my view, so I must scroll 1/2 way up the screen to select those units, scroll back down, and then attack.

All I want is a game with excellent strategy and decent graphics. Gameplay over graphics. This has been the key factor in making Civilization I/II the best games ever, and I'd hate to see it go down the drain because a few people think 3D is cooler than it actually is.

And don't get me wrong, 3D is cool, but only when used right! Quake 3 wouldn't work in 2D. Civilization III would work in 2D.

What I'm looking for is not completely 3D graphics, but "2.5D" graphics, similar to what SMAC had. Rolling hills and the like, but nothing so extreme it blocks your view and hoggs the CPU.

quote: Originally posted by Hasdrubal on 06-15-2000 02:46 PM Elvis Presley once released a greatest hits album, called 'Fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong!'. Shortly after that, some punk band named their album 'Eat shit! Fifty billion flies can't be wrong!'. It's just a hilarious counter to the argument that something must necessarilly be true if only enough people think it is.

oh thnx Hasdrubal . I wanted to write a raging reply .... but then I saw this . I agree ! kinda stupid of me .

anyway Loki : grafics are good .but they are not the key feature of the game .

Right ?

P.S. Moderators wake up !

3-D Graphics doesn't have to modify the gameplay of Civ3 at all, that is all just stuff like the politics, combat, cities etc.

The 3-D graphics is there to improve the effect/atmosphere of the game. Many people saw Civ1 as being played on a map instead of a world (if I understand there posts correctly), but when I play any of the Civ games (except SMAC) I am like really astonished at the feeling that I get of a real living world, and a 3-D Map will really improve that feeling.

Also, some great music wouldn't hurt either...

Bye

Oh yes - while I maintain that 3d graphics is uneccessary, good, clean, high quality 2d or semi-3d graphics would still be nice.