In Civ 1 and 2 you could take a city that originally belonged to an ally but was captured by a rival civ. Now in real life if you liberated that city and didn't give it back to the original owner - your ally, they would certainly break the alliance with you. Especially a city of importance (High population, Capital, etc.) So I propose a diplomatic addition to give cities to allies after their capture. For example - the WWII scenario. If you liberate Paris as the Allies you're going to want to give it back to the French. Maybe not right away, but when the war's over of course. Otherwise they're going to want to break the alliance with you or even declare war. Giving cities back to Allies should raise their opinion of you and make it extremely hard to cancel alliances after the hostilities are over (did anyone notice that cancelling alliances was a problem in Civ 2? After a war ended they always felt the need to end the Alliance) So what do you think?

Yeah, I think I like it.

Airspace is another problem. There have been times I've tried to fly over a narrow channel and the number of ships my ally has makes it impossible. Sharing the space (either passing by or over a turn) should be possible. I think subs should have the ability too.

Also I thought it would be interesting if my allies or even a peaceful neighbor were able to buy passage on one of my convoys and vise-versa. ...eventually using each other's airports as well.

quote: Originally posted by agent4043 on 06-05-2000 07:41 PM I'd really like to be able to stack and defend along side my allies within their city. Often I have to surround every city square to keep the enemy from moving in.

Exactly. You could also take advantage of City walls and SAM Missle Batteries...

quote: Originally posted by agent4043 on 06-05-2000 07:41 PM Airspace is another problem. There have been times I've tried to fly over a narrow channel and the number of ships my ally has makes it impossible. Sharing the space (either passing by or over a turn) should be possible. I think subs should have the ability too.

quote: Originally posted by agent4043 on 06-05-2000 07:41 PM Also I thought it would be interesting if my allies or even a peaceful neighbor were able to buy passage on one of my convoys and vise-versa. ...eventually using each other's airports as well.

quote: Originally posted by agent4043 on 06-05-2000 07:41 PM I'd like to see a loyalty factor added to the equation. Increases with positive interaction (trade, military, money loan, engineering improvement, etc.), decreases when you don't or over time. I think the role jealousy played in civ was a bit too persuasive too.

Hmm..a loyalty factor sounds good to me. Back to what I was saying about capturing an allied city...not returning it could drop your loyalty to zero. Maybe it could be harder to cancel alliances when the loyalty rating is very high? Cause why would any Civ want to cancel a military alliance just becuase there is peace? This was a problem in Civ 2.

BTW: thanks to everyone for the support of the Allied city idea

Any thoughts?

Here's another thing to think about. What if you are attacking a foreign civilization with your Ally. Both of you attack the same city, but from opposite directions. How should the territory gained be split? Your Ally might have lost a lot of his troops while you suffered minimal damage, but you get the city more territory. Should Allies be able to demand that you split it up? And how? It needs to be split up equally, depending on how much each person has contributed to the war effort. (Can't really think of anything)

And yes, I agree that something has to be done about units blocking you. I remember in the WWII scenairo, Spain was blocking the Strait of Gibraltar. I just wanted to get my ships through, but couldn't do so because of this. Even civs that are at peace with you should let you through the spaces their units are on, just not on their land. I'm not sure about air space though, maybe a civ can demand it or something.

About dividing territory - I think this could get complicated, but I definitely like it. And if the alliance breaks things could get interesting . But it would be hard to implement in Civ, and ideas on how this could be done?

quote: Originally posted by Akron on 06-08-2000 10:08 AM Here's another thing to think about. What if you are attacking a foreign civilization with your Ally. Both of you attack the same city, but from opposite directions. How should the territory gained be split? Your Ally might have lost a lot of his troops while you suffered minimal damage, but you get the city more territory. Should Allies be able to demand that you split it up? And how? It needs to be split up equally, depending on how much each person has contributed to the war effort. (Can't really think of anything)

Racing to claim enemy territory before your erstwhile ally does... dividing a single city up into occupation zones... sounds like the end of WWII to me.

I really like the idea of sharing Wonders benefits w/allies. But I think you should always be able to break alliances and stab your friends in the back, Diplomacy-style. Of course, you'd have to plan ahead and realize that you'd lose the benefits...

Any thoughts?

It's about time that diplomacy in a game was really strengthened. At this forum we seem to concentrate mainly on the realistic modelling of how a civ would work, but we tend to leave out diplomacy and trade. One should be able to play Civ3 and has a country/civ of a small size but having considerable world influence through diplomacy, eg Switzerland.

quote: One should be able to play Civ3 and has a country/civ of a small size but having considerable world influence through diplomacy, eg Switzerland.

Does Switzerland really have that much influence? Calling Switzerland a world power is like calling Canada a world power (I can say that, because I'm Canadian ). Sure, most countries have heard of us, and we seem to have a good reputation in most places, but when push comes to shove we really aren't taken that seriously. If we want to push our agenda, we have to sucker one of the real world powers into backing us.

quote: Originally posted by Spekter on 06-12-2000 04:43 AM Does Switzerland really have that much influence? Calling Switzerland a world power is like calling Canada a world power (I can say that, because I'm Canadian ).

have you see Southpark the movie ?

anyway the most annoying thing in Civ 2 was that plot : an allied civ asks you to break a peace treaty with its sworn enemy. I don't like them much either so I agree . the next time I meet them the are mad at me because my reputation is low . no logic.

The diplomacy model of CIV2 wasn't bad for its time, but it surely needs a lot of improvements. Fortunately Mr. Sid Meier promised this to us already .

quote: I think the main thing is, the AI should play like that in the early stages, but gradually shit (sic) to a more peaceful method, like after the UN

Would they need the "Sanitation" advance first?

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