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Author Topic:   Savegame naming conventions            Current Date/Time: June 09, 2000 03:59:37
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Firaxis

Dec 1999
posted April 06, 2000 10:43   Click Here to See the Profile for Jeffrey Morris FIRAXISClick Here to Email Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
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Any opinions?

jkm
firaxis games

Seeker
King
Canada(UWO)
b.02-15-99
posted April 06, 2000 12:23   Click Here to See the Profile for SeekerClick Here to Email SeekerVisit Seeker's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 31178799
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I don't understand...
Steve Clark
Prince
Colorado Springs, CO
Oct 1999
posted April 06, 2000 12:58   Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Clark 
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I think Jeff is asking what the default name should be in the game save dialog box. I can't say anything about the non-Civ2 civ games, but in Civ2 it includes the year (for non-scenario games) and some letters in front. Personally, since I only have one game going at a time, I just type in the year for my occassional saves (e.g., 4000, 1150). I still like the idea of auto saves with its unique names (auto_save1?). My only preference is to have a Saved Games folder so I can find the saved game file easily (there are alot of files under the default directory in which the .sav file can get buried).
Joe Bourque
Chieftain
Orono, ME, USA
Feb 2000
posted April 06, 2000 13:14   Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Bourque 
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I'd like "Tribe Name, Date": "Babylonians, 1429 A.D." A nifty feature might be to include the map name as well, or let you name the `world'. "Han Dynasty, Earth, 2044 A.D.", or "The Aegyptians, Riverworld, 110 B.C." You could even throw the goverment name in... "The Kingdom of Russia, Barsoom, 12 A.D." or "The American Theocracy, Trantor, 1848 A.D."

Nifty information, as well as `atmosphere', even in the save game files would be cool.

Joe

Thunderfall
Chieftain
Civilization Fanatics' Center
b.02-15-99
posted April 06, 2000 13:23   Click Here to See the Profile for ThunderfallClick Here to Email ThunderfallVisit Thunderfall's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 30180988
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Heroes of Might and Magic III has a very good interface for saving and loading files... You get to see a lot more info about the selected save game, not just the file name. Here is a screenshot

------------------
Thunderfall
Webmaster of Civilization Fanatics Center @ Strategy Gaming Online
[This message has been edited by Thunderfall (edited April 06, 2000).]

pris
Chieftain

Oct 1999
posted April 06, 2000 15:54   Click Here to See the Profile for pris 
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SMAC had a pretty much the perfect system i.e. [some text from user] + date. When you did a new save it automatically appended the new date to the user specific text.

It would be nice to specify a folder for all the saves in a game.

What we really need is someway to get more info about a file without opening it. For example if you select a file name it shows you details like;
player civs
real world date started
map size
etc, etc

Paul
King
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
posted April 06, 2000 16:28   Click Here to See the Profile for PaulClick Here to Email PaulVisit Paul's Homepage!
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Have a special file extension for Civ3 saved games so that you can double-click on them in Windows Explorer and have it automatically load the game, like with the PBEM games in CTP.
Ubergeek
Settler
St. Paul, MN USA
Feb 2000
posted April 06, 2000 16:42   Click Here to See the Profile for UbergeekClick Here to Email Ubergeek
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I really liked the SMAC expansion of auto-saves, allowing you to back up by up to thirty turns.

One nit to pick relates to my own style of saving games. If I want to keep more than one save from a given year I usually just modify the year in the second save, i.e. "1602" and "1602a". The minor irritation I have is that the next save defaults to the modified year, for example "1604a", "1606a," etc., so that unless I manually change it back it keeps going like that. I would prefer it if it defaulted back to the regular year. I'm not sure if that made sense in the English language, but there it is.

A general preference would be to keep the saved game names relatively short, the way SMAC does. It tells you what you need to know but doesn't take up too much space. Joe Bourque's suggestion is well taken, but if you go that route maybe you could have a toggle: "Verbose savegame names" vs. "Terse savegame names" or something like that.

------------------
Better living through tyranny

Ubergeek
Settler
St. Paul, MN USA
Feb 2000
posted April 06, 2000 16:44   Click Here to See the Profile for UbergeekClick Here to Email Ubergeek
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I just wanted to add that it is EXTREMELY COOL that Firaxis is consulting us even on such small issues as this. It gives me confidence that the finished product will be well worth the wait.

------------------
Better living through tyranny

Gord McLeod
Chieftain
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada
Mar 2000
posted April 06, 2000 19:20   Click Here to See the Profile for Gord McLeodClick Here to Email Gord McLeodVisit Gord McLeod's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 3824471
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I'd like to see subfolders for different games, and maybe a breakdown of information about the game. Leader - Civilization - Era - Year, so you might have: Imhotep - Egyptians - Stone Age - 3020 B.C.E or some such.
The Mad Viking
Prince
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Feb 2000
posted April 06, 2000 19:34   Click Here to See the Profile for The Mad Viking  Send a Message to UIN: 152
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1. Absolutely get .sav files out of the game file directory. Ideally, a folder for each game.
2. User text for the start of the file name, followed by the year in the game. Default automatically repeats user text and appends the year.
3. File properties you can access via right-click button that tell you additional information - map name, which civ, etc.

Paul - you can tell Windows to use the Civ exe file to open all files with the .sav extension. (I haven't tried it, but it should work)

Glak
Warlord

Apr 99
posted April 06, 2000 21:18   Click Here to See the Profile for GlakClick Here to Email Glak
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At the start of the game you name the game. There would be a checkbox, if you click it each save is a new file, otherwise it saves over the old. Additionally it would be nice if it turned the old save (before saving over it) into a backup file. So that would be another checkbox.

Saves should be compressed and uncompress when you load. That way people wouldn't zip files up when doing PBEM. No reason to add an extra step. You should be able to delete saves from within the game, no question about that. You should be able to doubleclick the file to start up the game using that save. Then from within the game you should be able to mail it out if it is a PBEM game

Sir Shiva
Chieftain
Bangalore, INDIA
Mar 2000
posted April 06, 2000 22:38   Click Here to See the Profile for Sir ShivaClick Here to Email Sir ShivaVisit Sir Shiva's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 17719980
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Having an associated extension for saved games would be cool... Games could be saved as *.SAV or even *.CIV or something, and you should be able to open them in explorer. They would also show up in the My Documents menu, giving us easy access to them...
This should extend to scenarios as well.
And you should be able to right click on a file and be presented with options like info etc.

Games could be saved with either text, date or text, civ, map date or whatever..

Saved games should be placed in a subdirectory in the main savedgame directory.

------------------
-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

Atahualpa
King
of my castle (somewhere in at)
Mar 99
posted April 07, 2000 11:09   Click Here to See the Profile for AtahualpaClick Here to Email AtahualpaVisit Atahualpa's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 19992362
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I am with Glak!

Also, why bother about selecting a name for the savegame. Simply press ctrl+s and everything is done automatically.

ATa

Paul
King
Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 99
posted April 07, 2000 13:20   Click Here to See the Profile for PaulClick Here to Email PaulVisit Paul's Homepage!
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Mad Viking: that only works if the game is programmed to to that. And if this is implemented the extension should definately not be .sav. That extension is used be many other games; if you want to automatically start Civ3 when you double-click a saved game it should have a unique extension. I also like Glak's and Sir Shiva's ideas.

The right-click info is definately a good idea; I like that in MS Office when you right-click an Office document in Windows Explorer and select properties you can get all sorts of info about that document. For Civ3 you should get things like leader name, civ name, game year and perhaps some other things.

Sir Shiva
Chieftain
Bangalore, INDIA
Mar 2000
posted April 08, 2000 13:00   Click Here to See the Profile for Sir ShivaClick Here to Email Sir ShivaVisit Sir Shiva's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 17719980
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So then the extension will have to be .CIV ?

------------------
-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

tniem
Warlord
GR, MI USA
Apr 2000
posted April 08, 2000 13:05   Click Here to See the Profile for tniemClick Here to Email tniem
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More importantly than saved game file names is a short summary of what has happened the past few turns, especially for PBEM games. These could be as simple as...

tniem of the Americans
Democracy, 1999 AD.
Have 32 cities for x population
At war with Russians and Chinese
At peace with England, NATO, Japan, Israel
Last turn took city of Beijing and Stalingrad
Two turns ago lost Stalingrad
Money x amount
Very close to new tech

Hugo Rune
King
Kong
Sep 1999
posted April 09, 2000 11:48   Click Here to See the Profile for Hugo RuneClick Here to Email Hugo RuneVisit Hugo Rune's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 18767835
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I completely agree with Glak here. That's the way I'd want it.

How about complete statistics? In an explorer-like interface you could pick just to see the files, or to see the files with the Civ used, the in-game turn, any mods used, the date last modified and maybe the current number of points. Then you could sort them by any of these values, so you could get them alphabetically, by date, by mod used and so on.

Oh, and have a look at ngWorldStats that comes with Unreal Torurnament. Great tool...

tobyr
Warlord
Princeton, NJ USA
Oct 1999
posted April 09, 2000 13:04   Click Here to See the Profile for tobyrClick Here to Email tobyr
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The save file names should follow two conventions:

(1) As a stertup option, let ME choose the pathname and the first part of the file name, e.g.:
c:
my\romans\pi

(2) The file names should be named so that they will mostly list alphabetically in chronological order, e.g.:
pi_a4000.sav
pi_a0800.sav
pi_b0001.sav
pi_b0500.sav
pi_b0925.sav etc.

Note that I use 'a' for the first age and 'b' for the second, and all dates produce FOUR DIGITS. (It might be even better to use 'f' for first age and 's' for second age.)

My approach still leaves the first-age dates listing in reverse order, but that seems an inevitable result of the way the game models dates.

- toby

------------------
toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

Stuff2
Warlord

Sep 1999
posted April 09, 2000 17:01   Click Here to See the Profile for Stuff2 
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I would prefer it quite simple.

Player's name and game year. like this:

"Stuffman 1728 AD"

Gearyman
Settler
Pensacola, FL
Feb 2000
posted April 10, 2000 23:01   Click Here to See the Profile for GearymanClick Here to Email GearymanVisit Gearyman's Homepage!
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Several people already mentioned the folder idea. Have a separate folder for each different game, with a name like 'Smith of the Germans'.

Then, inside that folder, save the actual games. You could then just save it as a_190.sav or b_3500.sav

I like the 'list of statistics' idea by tniem, although what information to list could be debated about until Civ IV arrives.

An idea might be to allow the user to choose whether to have 'statistics' or not, and maybe give a list and allow the user to choose which statistics to keep, since some are more important to one person than another.

Diodorus Sicilus
Warlord
Steilacoom, WA, USA
May 99
posted April 11, 2000 00:22   Click Here to See the Profile for Diodorus SicilusClick Here to Email Diodorus Sicilus
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Each game when saved for the first time should generate its own Folder. The same Game title should always generate a save to that same folder, which (ideally) will give you a set of Historical "shots' of the game's progress when you're done - or give up from tedium.
My own personal convention is to designate each game by the name of the Ruler that I am playing and the level, so my saved game folders are labeled things like KingAsterix, DietyFriedrich, PrinceIvor, etc.
I like the idea of a summary, but one that could be included as a part of each game turn: at the end of each turn a Tablet, Newspaper, or similar display (appropriate to the Era) giving the latest events. The previous turn's display would then be available if you save a game before completing the next turn, and the current turn's summary would be available if you saved at the end of the turn. Another feature could be a "string" of the trun summaries generated at the end of the game as a History file: a brief record of how your game went without having to save a couple of hundred game-turns individually...
HyperElite
Settler
Earth
Apr 2000
posted April 11, 2000 01:12   Click Here to See the Profile for HyperElite 
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Having a separate save game folder for each specific game sounds good.

As for a naming system for the savegames I think the one used in Civ 1 would satisy me.

Grier
Chieftain
of Reading,England
Feb 2000
posted April 11, 2000 05:56   Click Here to See the Profile for GrierClick Here to Email Grier
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Default should be: Leader_Name - Race - Year
and a view of the map and graph as in CTP.
Glak
Warlord

Apr 99
posted April 11, 2000 11:23   Click Here to See the Profile for GlakClick Here to Email Glak
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I think having a game name set at the beginning is preferable, because that way it will be unique, otherwise if you play the same name/tribe combo more than once it will interfer with another game. If you want you can just set the game name to your name and tribe.
Steve Clark
Prince
Colorado Springs, CO
Oct 1999
posted April 11, 2000 12:10   Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Clark 
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I believe my initial reply was too simplistic. As a software developer, I had to deal with how users save their work and in what extension to apply. In most cases, I just supply the standard Windows dialog box and have the user type in what ever they want, with the proper extension.

The key questions to ask in saving a Civ game are:
What advantage/disadvantage is there in supplying more (or less) information in the saved filename?
When users play multiple games at once, will it necessitate multiple saved game folders or much longer, descriptive filenames in one folder?
Is the primary purpose is to find a particular saved game among many or the most recent one?
Shall the filename convention be totally user-defined or can it be automated with some type of incremental counter?
Should the default name be based on a user-defined parameter (as suggested) or programmed?
What about the extension, can it be registered so that a user can start from the saved file or will this cause loading problems?
And perhaps the primary question: Shall it be designed so that the user can save a game where-ever, whenever and however they like or shall the designers force some restrictions to maintain integrity, reliability and consistency?
[This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited April 11, 2000).]

Kumiorava
Warlord
of the Elastic Mammals
b.02-15-99
posted April 11, 2000 16:30   Click Here to See the Profile for KumioravaClick Here to Email Kumiorava Send a Message to UIN: 14265035
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Firts of all, get those .sav files out of the /game folder.

It would also be very nice if one could specify a deffault save folder in the game options, with maby optional subfolders for each game.

As for the filenames, the deffaults of CivI
and II worked OK. No need to make them any longer. Very long filenames would only make a mess in explorer. And of course, you could always supply your own filenames the way you like them. Maby even make it possible to specify your own deffault format in the options,ie. _. or whatever.

The extra game info in explorer or the load-game dialog idea is a must.

- Kumis

Adm.Naismith
Warlord
Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
posted April 12, 2000 04:13   Click Here to See the Profile for Adm.Naismith Visit Adm.Naismith's Homepage!
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A "border" suggestion about save file is:

Please, make on the first game screen the default button "Load last saved game" (with the related name or info showed in a small box).
I hate on SMAC to have to wait every time the loading of INTRO, then press "ESC" to stop it, then hit "LOAD", then (thank you is the current underlined file ) hit enter to load the game I'm currently playing.
And I have skipped the screen "Play the game/Install/Uninstall" that I get if I insert the SMAC CD ROM with autorun ON

Please, make some shortcut!

------------------
Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

ChrisShaffer
Chieftain
Chicago, IL, USA
Aug 1999
posted April 12, 2000 05:53   Click Here to See the Profile for ChrisShafferClick Here to Email ChrisShafferVisit ChrisShaffer's Homepage!
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I suggest that Ironman force you to save the game to the same path/filename for the entire game. Ironman is useless if all it means is a bit of hassle to reload and no autosaves. As currently implemented, I can save gaian-2108.sav, gaian-2109.sav, gaian-2110.sav, etc. I can back up to any point I want. The only difference from a regular game is that, instead of the game automatically creating the backup files, I have to do it myself and it takes a bit longer.
Sir Shiva
Chieftain
Bangalore, INDIA
Mar 2000
posted April 12, 2000 07:36   Click Here to See the Profile for Sir ShivaClick Here to Email Sir ShivaVisit Sir Shiva's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 17719980
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I just had a good idea..

Each game has its own sub-dir (CIV3\Saves\Gamename\), and the program should know which is the most recent save. Then when you click Open Game, you will receive a list of all the games. Now, the list should have the foll.:-

A little screen shot of the map on the left, which can be enlarged..
Info on the right, like tniem's.
Button to load game (most recent one)
Button to load older save (brings up a list)
User comments..

The saved games themselves therefore can have v. minimalistic names, probably just date and civ..


------------------
-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

krauter
Settler
Rio de Janeiro, RJ, Brazil
Apr 2000
posted April 12, 2000 08:44   Click Here to See the Profile for krauterClick Here to Email krauterVisit krauter's Homepage!
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In addition to the editing capability, it would be nice to add some real time/date information or consecutive numbers: By playing the same levels several times, overview is getting lost.
Best would be the integration of an explorer-like tool to organize the saves in CIV3, so you can sort by date or name or comment and put them into different folders.
landshark
Settler
Minneapolis, MN
b.02-15-99
posted April 12, 2000 11:11   Click Here to See the Profile for landsharkClick Here to Email landshark
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I think Sir Shiva's idea is great, the only thing I would add is that this screen would be accessible via some sort of launch program. This program would allow you to bypass the game startup sequences and go directly to the game. If something like were used, the nameing conventions for the save games would be irrelavent.
Doo1284
Settler
Ridgefield Park, NJ, US
b.02-15-99
posted April 12, 2000 15:11   Click Here to See the Profile for Doo1284Click Here to Email Doo1284
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It would be nice if you could choose to type in some short notes about a save game while saving it. When you are in the loading screen, when you have a game selected, any notes are shown on the right screen, like in MS Office with it's preview document.
Eagle Scream
Settler

Feb 2000
posted April 12, 2000 21:01   Click Here to See the Profile for Eagle Scream  Send a Message to UIN: 52470137
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Saved game:
Real Life Date-Civ Abbreviated Name-Game Date

example:
2000-04-12-Russians-1800AD

BTW:sorry for 2 posts (I am unable to delete either one of them).
[This message has been edited by Eagle Scream (edited April 12, 2000).]

Eagle Scream
Settler

Feb 2000
posted April 12, 2000 21:02   Click Here to See the Profile for Eagle Scream  Send a Message to UIN: 52470137
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Saved game:
Real Life Date-Civ Abbreviated Name-Game Date

example:
2000-04-12-Russians-1800AD

BTW:thank for asking.

Earthling7
Warlord
Square 74, 127
Jul 1999
posted April 13, 2000 06:30   Click Here to See the Profile for Earthling7Click Here to Email Earthling7 Send a Message to UIN: 929768
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I have to say, I was a bit shocked that the load system in Civ2 was worse than in Civ. The problem has been partially fixed in SMAC, but...

I agree with Silva, as long as it doesn't make the savegames too big. Not more than half a meg.

Autosave: I think you should be able to select how far back the game keeps the autosaves. Now it is 2 turns, maybe having the option for a few more turns. What is more important there, however, is that the autosaves show you which year they were saved. Rather than Auto1, Auto2 etc, they would be Auto1900AD, Auto 1901AD etc.

------------------
Greetings,
Earthling7
ICQ: 929768

robsky
Settler
Utrecht, los Nederlandos
Mar 2000
posted April 13, 2000 10:11   Click Here to See the Profile for robskyClick Here to Email robskyVisit robsky's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 899853
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I'd like to see some extension to the windows filemanger file properties. You know: right-click a file and click on properties.

Some software (like photoshop and microsoft office) adds a new tab to their registered files with information like a thumbnail if it's an image and summery informaiton for office doc's.

I'd like to see some kind of tab like this for saved games (and possibly other files like maps and scenario's). This tab should contain information like a thumbnail of the map, a summary of the last couple of actions and a list of opponents. Basicly the information you get in the CTP load saved game dialog.
[This message has been edited by robsky (edited April 13, 2000).]

Nemo
Chieftain
Norman, OK - US
Apr 99
posted April 14, 2000 19:55   Click Here to See the Profile for Nemo Visit Nemo's Homepage!
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1) have a Save folder (e.g. c:\civ3\save)
2) have saved game subfolders (e.g. c:\civ3\save\game1dir, c:\civ3\save\game2dir, etc.)
3) have option at start screen to load last game saved
4) when you highlight the saved game it should bring up some text info in a box to the side. the info should include the following:
real date it was saved, game date, game level.
optional info:
real time it was saved (mostly to prevent over writitng other saved games), number of civs, ranking status during game, anything else.

Probably no pictures or info that'll make the save file too big though.

geofelt
Prince
Neptune Beach,Florida,USA
b.02-15-99
posted April 16, 2000 21:34   Click Here to See the Profile for geofeltClick Here to Email geofelt
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The current system has the virtue tha it is simple. Please preserve a simple default mode.
I have a problem with different games with the same starting leader names eg: CA for Caesar and CA for Canute. Three or at most four starting letters should do it. It would be nice to see all the saves for a game in proper chronological order.
After a while, I get savefile pollution, and it is a pain to delete a zillion saves. How about a display that allows you to click on a box in front of each file to delete?
SnowFire
King
Absecon, New Jersey
b.02-15-99
posted April 17, 2000 15:45   Click Here to See the Profile for SnowFireClick Here to Email SnowFire Send a Message to UIN: 35476699
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I agree with Thunderfall. Let people name their saves whatever they like, but make a real screen for it with lots of information on the game at hand, like the date it was last saved, the scenario if any, the civilization played, maybe even a thumbnail of the worldmap, etc. You would see this information by clicking on the save, like in HOMM3.
Blue Waldo
GameLeague
Missouri, USA
b.02-15-99
posted June 07, 2000 10:58   Click Here to See the Profile for Blue WaldoClick Here to Email Blue WaldoVisit Blue Waldo's Homepage! Send a Message to UIN: 15059697
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new folder for each game. that is all i have to say about that. well, one more thing, give us more info before we open the game, like leader name ect.
Hasdrubal
Chieftain
Carthage
May 2000
posted June 07, 2000 16:46   Click Here to See the Profile for HasdrubalClick Here to Email Hasdrubal
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The SMAC system was very good. Possibly with some extensions, like showing the little map from the top right corner of the in-game screen and extra info.

------------------
Ceterum censeo Romanem esse delendam.

Urban Ranger
King
The City State of Noosphere
May 99
posted June 09, 2000 03:59   Click Here to See the Profile for Urban RangerClick Here to Email Urban Ranger
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When you load a save game, the program should highlight the name of the game you have currently loaded. None if your current game is started from scratch.

I think MoO does that. Very nice touch.

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