- AI will not by default refuse another AI's proposal.
- AI has higher priorities for making proposals. This causes the AI to make more proposals.
- AI's will generate either positive or negative regard for each other.
- AI/Human interaction will be more agressive/demanding.
- Enabled trade and military pacts for peace treaty. I believe this to be more historically accurate.
- AI will build slightly more diplomats. (If suggested change of UnitBuildLists.txt is used)
- On average, an AI will make 6 considerations for proposals every 10 turns. This is an increase from Diplomod V2.2.
- AI has 3 different AI-Human diplomatic states being friendly, neutral and provoking.

Beta testers: we can discuss the mod here and propose changes/additions/fixes/whatever.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

quote: Originally posted by pjm44 on 01-24-2001 07:49 PM I'm playing diplomod v3.0 as we speak.I have a couple of questions. 1. when I first meet a new civilization I'm not getting a greeting from them. 2.Is there any way for the ai not to give me a city when I ask for one?

1 - I've noticed that in any of the mods I've written. I have no idea why it's not greeting, or how to force a greeting.

2 - You able to provide the specifics of the request to them? Like do you offer gold? Or just demand city? Threaten? Etc? Cuz I tried this quite a bit (after what happened in V2.2) and I never had the AI accept when I demanded a city.

quote: yeah, that's what i'm talking about i guess i mentioned it cause i'm playing a game with 8 civs on the 210x210 greece map. it's rather huge and each ai knows 1-2 other civs at about 1000ad...

Markos the AI's should be sending proposals to all AI's before they meet them. It's the biggest diplo-cheat I gave the AI. Pretty much all they do is swap maps in the early game, so it doesn't affect the game much.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Okay I just ran the mod thorough 150 turns and well I'm impressed it works nicely. The AI used almost every available request except for the treaties, I'm not sure if that's the idea of if the AI didn't think I was worth it... either way it was good. The only problem I have is with the early AI map trading before they met, I mean I met the Hebrews around turn 20 and I almost had the whole world mapped out by turn 25 when I met the indonesians. I traded maps and wow, I knew about the whole world... a glaring problem I believe since now I knew where pretty well everyone else was and then systematically went ahead and wiped them out... no exploring just leagues of warriors and knights or whatever I had at the moment and beat them. I don't think this is the best thing. Other than that I liked that the AI did try to barter a little more than usual but again when I was at war and they'd request I cease-fire, I counter with I want such and such a tech to stop attacking (and by this point they were down to maybe 2 cities) they refused. I'm not sure if this is fixable but I don't think anyone would want to keep fighting to keep say stone working a secret... it's a tech or it's your civ... most people would choose the civ... any suggestions on improving this?

Rich

I'm currently testing your new meta mod, it's great but before I actually meet some other civ's the game just crashes without even a errormessage !

I never had this before, it's occuring at random, one time I could play till 3000 bc other time 3600 bc but never for long.
It just strikes me as odd that I never had these crashes before !

Because of the lack of a message I don't know where it goes wrong, so I don't have a clou how to solve this !

and about the greeting thing, there is a line in the diplomacy.slc thats not in your slc. its. try it! right now i cant test your mod...tomorrow!

ANYWAYS! Big news on the diplomod front. I've done a heap of work over the weekend (sorry for the silence, we had a long weekend and I don't have net at home) and am proud to say......

- That crash to desktop bug is gone.
- AI won't give ya his cities.
- Have included a mod called Withdraw. It forces AI out of your territory when making withdraw_troop agreements. And it WORKS!
- AI will now definitely make embassies! (Though I had to cheat a little to get it to do it).

Will send out V3.1 to the testers to have some fun with. I'll keep you up-to-date.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rich:
My purpose for the mod is to get agreements between AI's. However, due to how the game is internally programmed it'll never happen. At least I've got them to create embassys in V3.1 now.

Kormer:
You'll have to update the script to V3.1. It contains new bug/crash-fixes.

Huysmans:
That crash is now fixed. It had to do with how I was setting the AI's diplomatic states.

thanatos:
I'll try it tonight and see what happens. Though I suppose leaving diplomacy.slc in script.slc will do the same thing.

magma12:
That sort of thing would take a lot of reprogramming. Maybe I'll be able to do it one day.

dennis:
On the research pact, I think this is how it's supposed to work. I mean, you're so far ahead scientifically, there is no way 'their' research is going to benefit you as you have it. But your research will benefit them heaps! When the US discovers something, how long is it till their allies have it? Not very long.

Rich(again, I'm just scrolling down the list of comments):
The mod should mesh pretty well with others now. I've resolved the instability issues it had.

And last but not least......... heardie:
I'm a cruel SOB.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Well, pretty please. So far, I love what the mod has done for the game. The AI are now very active.

BTW, I just took a look at the files db to see what new stuff there was. Saw diplomod updated and glanced at the figures. How accurate are those????????

quote: Added: 28-Jan-2001 Hits: 218 Avg.Daily Hits: 218

I almost fell off my chair! I feel appreciated! Yay!

BTW, if anyone wants to translate the english to other languages, it would be appreciated. So far I've had requests sent to me for Swedish, German and French. All I known is Stray-yun.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Your new 3.1 version runs perfectly, however with one glitch: Independent of the regard (ie even when I am in war with another civ), I nearly always get an advance as soon as I request it.

The "city-for-free" bug is eliminated, however now we seem to have an "advance-for-free-even-in-war" bug.

quote: Originally posted by Dale on dennis: On the research pact, I think this is how it's supposed to work. I mean, you're so far ahead scientifically, there is no way 'their' research is going to benefit you as you have it. But your research will benefit them heaps! When the US discovers something, how long is it till their allies have it? Not very long.

Hi Dale,

Thanks for good work and timely response. I would
agree with you about research pact except they soon
caught up and past me. They were 5 advances ahead
when I had enough and found something to Declare War
about. I don't see any other way to stop a Pact??

code:

---

///////////////////////////////////
// diplomacy.slc routines
///////////////////////////////////
HandleEvent(NewProposal) 'DIP_ProposalResponseEvent' pre {
	if(IsHumanPlayer(player[0])) {
                if(!(AtWarWith(player[0], player[1]))) {
		      ConsiderResponse(player[0].owner, player[1].owner, 100, 2);
                }
	} else {

---

It should be easy to find this section. By putting in this 'catch' it should halt the AI in it's more favourable diplomacy that I've programmed. Basically, if you're at war with an AI and make a request, it'll skip the more favourable considering statement and use the default CTP2 one.

Hope this helps and let me know.

Dennis:
There is actually coding in the game to have a "Break Agreement" diplomatic proposal. It's just not turned on. I'll take a look to see if there's a way to turn this on and it should allow you to break an agreement with an AI.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

quote: It should be easy to find this section. By putting in this 'catch' it should halt the AI in it's more favourable diplomacy that I've programmed (...) Hope this helps and let me know.

Hi Dale,

Yes it did help perfectly, so the "bug" is removed. If at war, the AI will reject blunt advance requests from my side. Many thanks for this !

Still, in my testing so far, an AI not being at war with you will give you any advance with nearly 100% chance even if you don't offer anything in return. That fits a little bit in other players' perception of "too easy".

I know this phenomenon is discussable (some might like it, some might not like it), however is there an easy way out of it ?

1. The AI never used to swap maps - fixed.
2. Request to speed up AI's 'exploring' - fixed by increasing chance of AI's offering maps to each other.
3. Now there's a request to slow down the AI's offering maps to each other, or to have them only swap maps with civs they know.

As it stands, there is no way in SLIC to check if one civ has contact with another civ. The script at the moment processes considerations for offering maps to each other from turn 1. If the AI knows where another AI is then there is a greater chance they will setup trade routes enhancing their economic and science ratings. Beneficial to the game. So what do I do folks? How can I 'please' the general audience?

1. Reinstate the original routines which will make the AI refuse everything by default?
2. Eliminate the offer maps routine? Or slow it down somehow?
3. Make the AI refuse to give it's maps to you?
4. Uninstall the whole mod and scrap the lot?

Sorry, the last one was a bit pissy wasn't it? But seriously, what do you suggest? I need ideas of what YOU want to make it happen.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

quote: 1. Reinstate the original routines which will make the AI refuse everything by default? 2. Eliminate the offer maps routine? Or slow it down somehow? 3. Make the AI refuse to give it's maps to you? 4. Uninstall the whole mod and scrap the lot?

Dale,

I think everyone here just wants to shout out one little sentence as overall message: GREAT WORK WHICH SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVES GAMEPLAY !!!

Besides this, you might want to think about some cosmetic changes to your Mod, however always keep in mind that nearly everyone using your Mod should be much happier now with CTP2.

So my personal answers are:

ad 1: This is not a relevant option at all. You basiscally have implemented the "true" diplomatic model into CTP2, so let's not go back.

ad 2: Slowing down while not eliminating it is for me personally the most preferred option. It might compromise with the AI growth rate, but this can be changed easily in the DiffDB.txt cheat areas (people can do this on their own in my pov rather than including the DiffDB.txt in your Mod).

ad 3: No, but somehow overall make it less probable that the AI gives you maps as gifts. They should only give it to you if they are scared/impressed of you. I know this might not be feasible in SLIC though. Making it refuse automatically is not something I would like to see, so I prefer to live with a "too easy maps to get glitch" rather than eliminating this at all.

ad 4: See ad 1 :-)

- Half the acceptance chance of the AI to human proposals.
- Currently exchange AI-AI maps is 10% chance. Have it so for the first 100 turns it decreases from 1-in-110 chance to 1-in-10 chance, decreasing by 1 chance per turn. By then, you're going to know where most of the civs are anyway, if not all.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

quote: Originally posted by Dale on 01-30-2001 08:17 PM Okay, how bout if I try this then: - Half the acceptance chance of the AI to human proposals. - Currently exchange AI-AI maps is 10% chance. Have it so for the first 100 turns it decreases from 1-in-110 chance to 1-in-10 chance, decreasing by 1 chance per turn. By then, you're going to know where most of the civs are anyway, if not all.

Dale, you're a star.

I think your mod is great, I'm just worried that the AI might become too much of a pushover.

ALL:
I tested my increasing chance of maps theory, and it still went too fast. So I changed it to 1-in-300 chance at the start of the game increasing by 1 point to a 1-in-100 chance by turn 200 where it flattens out. After testing 5 starts to turn 200, the AI has definitely slowed it's map swapping. On average I found that by turn 50 only two civs had swapped maps. By turn 100 up to 4 had, and by turn 200 nearly all. However, on a realistic point, most AI's did not have current information on the other AI's. It was outdated and basic.

V3.2 release:
- Implements above increasing-chance formula for map swapping.
- NEW PROPOSAL: Request/offer break agreements. Can break agreements with a third party. Eg. Have peace treaty with civ[a], civ[b] at war with civ[a], offer to break agreements with civ[a] TO civ[b]. If they accept, civ[a] dislikes you more, civ[b] likes you more.
- Halved AI acceptance of human proposals. Harder to get stuff through an AI now (pointed at advance problem).
- "Catch" put in to slow diplo activity from an AI if at war with you.

Download when Rich puts it in the DB. I believe now that we are at an end for Diplomod development. I feel happy now with how the AI performs diplomacy, between itself and with the player. Thanks for all the support and feedback. BTW, to see what the diplomacy model CAN do, take a look at "treaty.jpg" in the zip file. I got sent that after paying off a civ to keep them happy while I beat the crap out of the Americans. You'd never see that with the normal CTP2 diplo model.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.