I realize it may come off as obnoxious to ask for this, when im not volunteering to do it - just consider it a friendly suggestion.

If you want me to, and if I can find the time, I might put something together. Don't wait for me to do it, though. At this moment I have roughly one billion and four things to get done this week (and it's already Tuesday!). If I do it, fine. If somebody else beats me to it, also fine

quote: Originally posted by RonHiler on 01-23-2001 08:34 PM That's not a bad idea at all, having a single comparitive chart

the issue is, how do you describe the various parts of a civ game...
i wouldnt ask you to do the whole thing, but if you have any ideas on the above....

anyway, a comparison like the one "lord of the mark" suggests in much easier

- graphics(16 bit, 8 bit, etc)
- map(isometric, flat, 3d)
- tiles(square, hexagons)
- unique/generic civs
- victory types
- number of max civs(7,8,16,32...)
- simultaneous moves(yes,no)
- customizable units(ala smac)
- borders
- tile improvement model
- stacks/tactical combat
- goverments(civ2 like, smac se, etc)

------------------
Mark Everson
Project lead for The Clash of Civilizations
(That means I do the things nobody else wants to do ;-) )
This Radically different civ game needs your suggestions and/or criticism of our design.
Check our our Forum right here at Apolyton...

I would add a couple of items:

Contact (e-mail)
Web page (link)
Discussion (link)
Play types (single player, multiplayer, (hotseat, PBEM, Massive multi, etc.))

We need to agree on a format, or whoever puts it together will have a bear of a time. I propose that for the short things like most of the items in Markos' lists we look for very short answers and organize it in a table. To my mind that's probably the critical thing, since for most of these games you need a good chunk of a page of text to get at the real meat of what makes 'em different... And that is probably too much for those with a low level of interest to wade thru six or so times.

We need to keep this all on one page, which will be difficult enough with six or seven games in the list. But if we can do that, a casual observer could quickly scan through and pick out the features most interesting to him or her, and then click on a web link to get more detailed information about the project (that's why I suggested adding the links).

(errr, nevermind, MarkG has already volunteered )

- Type of game: World Conquering 4x TBS
- Play types: Single Player, PBEM, Hotseat
- Design goals: World conquering from Pre-History to Future
- Distribution type: Shareware
- Current version: Alpha 0.4
- Scheduled release date: 2001-2002
- Platforms: Win 9x
- Programming language: C++
- Need of help?: Yes, Documentation and Description Blurbs
- Graphics: Varies (user set)
- Map: 3D Spherical
- Tiles: None (Point based movement)
- Unique/generic civs: Unique
- Victory types: Varies (player set)
- Number of max civs: 30
- Simultaneous moves: Yes
- Customizable units: Yes
- Borders: Yes
- Tile improvement model: Unit based (ala Civ2)
- Stacks/tactical combat: Yes (but computer controlled only)
- Goverments: No

- Type of game: Whole-History 4x TBS
- Play types: Single & Multi- Player
- Design goals: Killer AI, Reduced Micromanagement, More Realistic Feel
- Distribution type: Shareware
- Current version: Demo 4, 5 out soon
- Scheduled release date: 2002
- Platforms: All! (Anything that will run Java)
- Programming language: Java
- Need of help?: Yes, Clash can abuse your help in virtually any area
- Graphics: 8-bit
- Map: Isometric / Cylindrical
- Tiles: Square
- Unique/generic civs: Generic, but more nuanced than usual
- Victory types: Varies (player set)
- Number of max civs: Unlimited (player set)
- Simultaneous moves: Yes
- Customizable units: Yes
- Borders: Yes
- Tile improvement model: Similar to public works in CTP
- Stacks/tactical combat: Stacks / automatic tactical combat that takes into account player orders
- Goverments: Detailed Government model including internal power struggles

Note: I will stick to the things that are actually currently implemented... (Or at least specify as "planned")

• Type of game: Civ type
  
• Play types: Single Player, networked simultanious multiplayer, persistent server with min time epr turn multiplayer
  
• Design goals: "Make a better civ than civ" and "'Cause civilization should be free!"
  
• Distribution type: Open Source
  
• Current version: 1.11.4 (1.12.0 nearing)
  
• Scheduled release date: Now, soon and forever.
  
• Platforms:
  * GNU/Linux
  * Sun Solaris
  * OpenBSD
  * NetBSD
  * FreeBSD
  * BSDI 4
  * Amiga
  * MS Windows 95/98/NT/2000
  * SunOS
  * SGI Irix
  * IBM OS/2
  * IBM AIX
  * HP HP-UX
  * OpenVMS
  * QNX
  * Darwin
  In the works: BeOS, MAC and native windows
  
• Programming language: C (some clients in C++)
  
• Need of help?: What we probably need most is a good manual...
  
• Graphics: Isometric and civ1 style
  
• Map: Only normal world style for now
  
• Tiles: Multiple tilesets. Very flexible tile set support
  
• Unique/generic civs: Not very
  
• Victory types: Conquest and space race
  
• Number of max civs: 30
  
• Simultaneous moves: Yes
  
• Borders: Planned.
  
• Tile improvement model: Unit based (ala Civ2)
  
• Stacks/tactical combat: No
  
• Goverments: Yes
  
• AI: Yes
  

Slick-6

• Type of game: Space 4x TBS
  
• Play types: Single Player, and Multi-player through PBEM, Hotseat, and TCP/IP
  
• Design goals: Strong gameplay, deep tech-tree, simple interface
  
• Distribution type: Shareware
  
• Current version: Internal Alpha
  
• Scheduled release date: 2001-2002
  
• Platforms: Win 9x/2k (portable)
  
• Programming language: C++
  
• Need of help?: Not at the moment
  
• Graphics: 3d (DirectX, OpenGL, and Glide supported)
  
• Map: 2D, view is flexible
  
• Tiles: None (Point based movement)
  
• Unique/generic civs: Unique
  
• Victory types: Varies (player set)
  
• Number of max civs: 32 (not hard coded)
  
• Simultaneous moves: Yes
  
• Customizable units: Yes
  
• Borders: Undecided (lack of sufficient methods)
  
• Tile improvement model: Unit based (ala Civ2)
  
• Stacks/tactical combat: No, Yes (computer controlled)
  
• Goverments: No
  

Contact: JKozak@RJCyberware.com
Web page: www.RJCyberware.com/.6
Discussion: Apolyton Alt Civs forum

Ron, i also want you to explian the following

quote: Graphics: Varies (user set) - Victory types: Varies (player set)

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 01-29-2001 01:25 PM Ron, Jason, what do you mean by "no" in "Goverments"? you dont have any kind of goverment model?

It means just that There is no government model in MD, and I have no plans of putting one in. In gameterms, I guess it means your people always do exactly what you tell them to do, and only what you tell them to do. If I had to put a label on it, I guess I'd call it absolute despotism, with no chance of revolt. I'm more interested in players dealing with each other than with them dealing with internal problems in their own civ (i.e. the computer declaring peace for you in a democracy in CivII every turn). In MD, if you want to have a war with your neighbor, you can bloody well have one

quote: Ron, i also want you to explian the following Graphics: Varies (user set)

quote: Victory types: Varies (player set)

Hope that helps explain my ambiguous answers

I think Heardie's list covered pretty much everything. Only one thing:

Our government model is by NO means based on the SMAC one. I would call it based on the Clash one, if anything, and yet deeply unique. But still, we are trying to do with it just what Clash are trying to do with their model - giving the power to the people, allowing complex internal strife and domestic politics in a way never seen in Civ games.

------------------
"If you are to hurt someone you better do it so good that you don't have to fear revenge."
- Machiavelli

If nobody else is going to do it in the near future, I can see if Dom, our webmaster, is available to give it a shot.

I have some pictures that will do for now for Clash... The big one is at http://clash.apolyton.net/images/Map120.gif. I made two versions for the thumbnail, one a JPEG, http://clash.apolyton.net/images/clashmapsm.JPG which still looks a little washed out even at the higher resolution I have available, and a bit map http://clash.apolyton.net/images/clashmapsm.bmp . You can pick which one you want to use, or if you have a way to change a bit map into a GIF, which I don't, that would be a better solution for the thumbnail since I think Netscape doesn't do bitmaps...

I can email them to you if you prefer.

Thanks in advance for your efforts!

When do we see thumbnails?

uhm... I was thinking of maybe including one more shot, that's not 'in-game' shot... could be anything... a tech tree, a user interface... whatever...

Thanks for the update. You missed the fix to the Clash url that I requested above. Specifically you need to remove the 'www.' or the link won't work.

Thanks,