Here are the number of wonders each civ has (not counting futurisitc wonders)

British/English= 3
Italian/Roman = 2
Greek = 1
Aztec = 1
Chinese = 2
German/Prussian= 1
Turkish = 1
Egyptian = 1
and
American = 8

CAN ANYONE SEE ANYTHING WRONG HERE?
These are all great and historic nations, BUT LOOK AT HOW MANY THE US HAS. Don't get me wrong- the US has contibuted loads to the modern era, but this is ridiculous!

Plus, the fact that half the wonders are the same as CTP1 but with the end lopped off is a joke, the London Exchange wonders music cut off, mid tune!

With the Egalitarian act, it says in the great library that the EU built it, but in the video it has the US flag!

This game is a travesty, I actually think CTP1 is better (when it has the Med mod of course)!

Activision have fooled me again. I won't be buying CTP3 thats for sure!

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

quote: Originally posted by red_jon on 12-18-2000 01:28 PM Plus, the fact that half the wonders are the same as CTP1 but with the end lopped off is a joke, the London Exchange wonders music cut off, mid tune!

I assume you mean you don't like the movies to be repeated, and not the choice of wonders themselves.

I've mentioned before why the Emancipation Act and The Agency are not legitimate wonders (they are both things achieved by Britian first).

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

Is that true about the Chariot Unit?

How can they put a copyright on some wonders???? They have no rigth to copyright anything. Especially not the chariot! (as if they invented them)
I will make a game where solely a chariot exists and then sell it and see if they will try to sue me. HAHAHAHAHA **** MICROPROSE.

quote: Originally posted by mosquitodriver on 12-18-2000 05:27 PM all i have to say to you redjon is until the europeans become the leaders of the free world dont complain about america being represented so much in the game. america made the modern world what it is today with some help from the others but shouldnt the leader get due credit like it did in the game. after all it is an american game, heck i think all the civ games are american, why dont the europeans try making one aye?

Bearing in mind it is supposed to be a historically accurate game

So you honestly don't think the US is over-represented? 8 WONDERS? You actually think a BILL should be a wonder? This is a CIVILIZATION game not- CALL TO AMERICA

Americas contribution to the world has been about half a century. The Romans and Egyptions were in power way longer and they only get one each? Something very wrong.

And regarding the CIV2 wonders thing- the game has the Pyramids, so why can't it have the rest? Couldn't it have called the chariot by a different name (like its latin name)

I always found it a little funny that I have the North Americans and Americans in the same game.

As for it being an American game ... Well, .. how arragant can you get .. the modern world was not build by the US, you have contributed since WW2, and little before this time.

Im reminded of my recent trip to Paris, where I heard an American tourist say "GEEE They really built this thing 100 years ago ??" regards to the Eiffel tower .. It may be a suprise to some of you Americans, but we (Europeans) were building empires while you were eating baked beans and firing guns at each other ... nothing much has changed since.

You can't copyright the color red, or the color white, or a long wavy line. But if you combine them all, the Coca Cola company will start to get mighty nervous, and might sue you on general principles.

quote: Im reminded of my recent trip to Paris, where I heard an American tourist say "GEEE They really built this thing 100 years ago ??" regards to the Eiffel tower .

I've heard a similar story. An American women at Windsor castle sees a plane flying overhead. She says "I can't believe they built a castle in the middle of a flight path"!

Enough with Yank Bashing.

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch on 12-19-2000 09:55 AM Straw that broke the camel's back.

And all that military support (food, guns, planes, ships, etc.) didn't do much for the war effort either

What about the Magna Carta, Code of Hammarabi, the TVA, I'd even say the roman road system. These are more worthy of Wonder status.

Until they do, it reminds me of the Civil War. Mark my words, 'Civ3' and 'CTP3' and all the rest will never be as fun as Civ2 and the ones that come before it.

I enjoyed the graphics of Civ2 and Civ1, and they tied into the gameplay. Now it's like I'm playing STARS! in the Civ world, and that's not why I enjoy Civilization.

quote: Originally posted by red_jon on 12-18-2000 01:28 PM CAN ANYONE SEE ANYTHING WRONG HERE? These are all great and historic nations, BUT LOOK AT HOW MANY THE US HAS. Don't get me wrong- the US has contibuted loads to the modern era, but this is ridiculous!

What do you expect from an American company? Especially with a company that has most of its market based in America. If I bought a game developed in England for an English Market I'd simply love to see all the English symbols and patriotism or what ever you call it.

I don't see why people can't stand to see American symbols in video games just because they aren't American themselves.

Could somebody enlighten me on this subject?

If it were the French or Romans with that amount of wonders I'd still be complaining as it is unrealistic.

I'm sure the American people who buy this game would, on the whole, prefer it to be historically accurate.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

does it really matter where all the wonders come from?
In the game play the british and build the empire state building. Now its yours (british) for the sake of it! This game is there to REWRITE history (the slogan says that)! Do that and enjoy!

Even if we forget where they came from it is still STUPID.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

Spending 50 turns to get a 'wonder' that just makes drug abuse and peadaphillia legal seems idiotic.

Especially when so many good suggestions have been made in these forums.

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"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill

quote: Originally posted by Celestial_Dawn on 12-18-2000 09:24 PM Check with the Assyrian patent office.

Sorry CD, it was the Hittites.

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Big Dave

several times?

As for particular wonders that arent really wonders, I'll see what I do to alter the game and make them 'accomplishments' instead of Wonders. That way things like the Zero Crime Bill won't deeply offend some people.

Keep in mind that wonders are highly changable with a bit of editing. Anyone can go in and rename them as they wish. If the movies offend that much, turn them off. I always turn them off after finishing off my first game anyways.

I never kept count of which wonders were built by what nation. My concern was what good they would do for me if I built them.

- Jerk -

quote: Originally posted by Jerk on 12-21-2000 12:53 AM Who is now modifying civilisation.txt and changing all the civs to US state names. Whine on! [This message has been edited by Jerk (edited December 21, 2000).]

You should name the civs to their nicknames: like cheeseheads, FIBs, Hoosiers, old folks who cant punch a ballot, and such.

Seriously though, I'd like to see some suggestions on improving what the wonders do. You can read my gripe about the global satellite at ../../Forum26/HTML/000107.html

For the "old folks who cant punch a ballot" maybe we can make a new wonder called "The Universal Ballot" buildable by Republics or Democracy governments that gives happiness since all votes are counted on a universal ballot and counted equally. The canadians made us look bad by settling their election before the United States even though they voted for President after we did. I vote they get it

quote: Originally posted by Jerk on 12-21-2000 05:42 AM Speaking of cheeseheads perhaps I'll make the civs based on NFL teams. Thanks for the idea

You could have one civ be football, another baseball, another basketbal.....LOL

quote: Originally posted by Alpha Wolf on 12-19-2000 11:51 AM There are so many bogus wonders in this game, that I cant believe you are all arguing over which country they come from. Wonders are supposed to be unique, so how could the WIA, penicillin, or globesat be wonders if more than one country has them? I wish they'd replace Wonders with national improvements that could be bought by any civ. That would also end the arguement on whether Wonders have too much of an unbalancing effect. What about the Magna Carta, Code of Hammarabi, the TVA, I'd even say the roman road system. These are more worthy of Wonder status.

I agree 100 (no make that 1000)% I remember in CTP-1 seeing Contraception as a Wonder. Wow! What brands (Trojans, etc). Geez, if one civilization can invent the "pill" or "rubber", whay can't others. Even 3rd world countries now have devices of contraception available. I think the Wonders should only improve happiness through pride of that civilization in it's Wonder(s) it has built. Globesat was always stupid. Only one civilization/country can develop satelites to expose the planet? Gee, I guess the Russians (in the old USSR) had no satelite data of the U.S. Then, of course, 'Cloaking' came along and all civilizations/countries were "cloaked" from that civilization/country that had 'Globesat', even if they didn't research 'cloaking'. TRASH the Wonders for all purposes other than happiness (through national pride). All other benefits (food, military strength, defense, etc) should be researched and be able to be researched by all. And, yes, for all those just dying to tell me that Cloaking (and possibly Globesat) are not part of CTP-2, but part of CTP-1, I say, "no S___!" I was just using them as an example. I do not yet own CTP-2 (it does not have Hot Seat yet), but it still uses Wonders for things other than 'happiness' through pride of achievement. Hoover Damn, I believe, is a Wonder. Look at all the special things the U.S has that no other civilization/country has. just because of Hoover Damn. Same applies for the Empire State Building, Eifel Tower, Leaning Tower of Pisa (spelling?), pyramids, stonehenge (scientists today still aren't sure of it's purpose).

And after reading all the stuff on this site....I'm glad I haven't bought CTP-2. Same old stuff (with a couple of 'twists'), different cover. Seems to need patches to fix the patches. The Jury, except for those given copies from the manufactureer, should still be (way) out on this game.

I personally bought CTP-1 (after having played Civ1 & Civ2) because it offered sea colonies and space (unfortunately neither was done exceptionally well and space turned out to be nothing more than space stations and has been (rightfully so) left out of CTP2. I was hoping to colonize other planets (aka Alpha Centuri, Civ2-TOT). CTP-1 also seemed to offer a few new (or maybe improved) units and better graphics. It turns out that the Sid Meir group did a much better job (heads and shoulders) above the Activision folks at rating non-imaginary (real life units) such as Battleships, Aircraft Carriers (and having a supply of aircraft for this ship), etc. Both games had flaws with "bow and Arrow guys" shooting down jet aircraft and taking out tanks, etc. CTP-1 seemed to have a better trade method (in my opinion) than the Civ2 game, though the latter was more realistic in making sure that you got the trading vehicle (camel or truck) to the location to be traded with.

CTP-2 (by reading what I've read all over this site) seems to be CTP-1 with more diplomacy with my computer (excuse me....computer AI) and more 'bugs'.

Hey, if they start working on CTP3, they might have it out in time for next Christmas (a little sarcasm) and CTP4 could be out before Christmas 2002 (a little added sarcasm).

"Of course, it's just a game, only a game. Any similarity between this game and anything in 'real life' is purely coincidental."

and....

"Ho, ho, ho ....Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night"

quote: but even more ridiculous, is that Firaxis and Micropose aren't collaborating on Civilization.

Uh... but they are... Firaxis is working on Civ3 with Hasbro, which owns Microprose.