Isn't exporting drugs a proper reason to wipe that civ of the Earth?

Take advantage of!!!

If you crush Americans or Cubans where is the difference? All civs are the same except for their name! And the photo!

If you would have requested some civs to be included okay. I can understand that. But to request some civs to take out is not okay IMO.

It absolutely DOESNT matter with what names the AI is equipped. Cause the American AI is the same as the Cuban AI. Only the name is different! edit: To correct any misunderstandings (if they come up). Civ Names do matter (for you to choose) but it doesnt matter what names the civ have that I am playing against. For me Cubans are like Nicaraguans/British/French/... . I start diplomatic negotiations with them and see who they react and then maybe they become allies or enemies (or I dont care about them). Okay I am always happy when there are Americans playing against me (to wipe them off the face of the earth :evil: ). But never would I dare to think a civ wouldnt deserve it to be in!

ATa

About choosing a civ: I normally choose a civ, which has more than just a couple of hundred years on the back. I fell it's odd, starting year 4000BC with a civ, just "invented" in 1920 or so. I like to choose and old civ or a race, which "covers" several nations during time.

I like historically accuracy, so I understand the feeling of TheBirdMan

quote: About choosing a civ: I normally choose a civ, which has more than just a couple of hundred years on the back. I fell it's odd, starting year 4000BC with a civ, just "invented" in 1920 or so. I like to choose and old civ or a race, which "covers" several nations during time.

Well, why don't start game with the few early Civ, then let the player to change it "on the fly" when some main event occurs?
A few example:
- The Roman Republic conquer the last city of the German: a pop up appear to suggest the wise leader to change the civilization name (suggesting one, overwritable by player) into the like of Roman germanic Empire, or keep the old.
- The Great English Empire fall over a rebellion that split it in two: let the player chose the name of the part remaining under control (may be you can chose to stay with the old Civ or join the separationists).

So we can start Roman (realistically, in old age) then become Venice Republic, then Italian. Chose any other starting point and old age civilization, you can become any Great or little nation you like, also nation usually not included in CTP / Civ list. Can be a win-win solution?

I know you want to get more attention for the Hungarians, but IMHO the best way to do it is to tell how Hungarian culture, science and other things have changed the world we live in. If you simply try to kick other countries out of the game, you will get this kind of justified response from the readers of this site. I am sure Ata, who is our neighbour, an Austrian, will fight for our legtimate request to get the Hungarian civ in the game. So I would like to ask you as a fellow Hungarian not to attack other nations and civilizations please.

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 10-12-2000 10:29 AM I already suggested it in a CIV 3 thread, hope it can be interesting here too: So we can start Roman (realistically, in old age) then become Venice Republic, then Italian. Chose any other starting point and old age civilization, you can become any Great or little nation you like, also nation usually not included in CTP / Civ list. Can be a win-win solution?

I really like this man!!! (and of course his suggestion :-D

I really really hate that name change feature!
Sorry AH!
Nevertheless I still stick to my point: All civs deserve to appear in a civ game!

Nevertheless, if you want Hungarian in I am all for it! If it would be somehow doable, include ALL civs ever existed!

First off, I just wanted to know what tribes are included. CtP didn't allow you to pick your opponents, so I felt it very unrealisitc and historically innacurate to find the Cubans the strongest empire in the world. I liked civ2 because I could relate it to history. CtP just messed it up. Isn't the theme of "Civilization" supposed to include the greatest civilizations of history? Serious, besides nationalists, hardly anyone would consider Cuba or Nircaragua as one of the greatest countries ever.

Bartemans
haha. It would be funny and prehaps fun just one game, but after that, pathetic.

Atahualpa
To me, crushing america makes a big difference than crushing Cuba. Besides the missile crisis, Cuba has no major role in history. Meanwhile, america has fought in, and won some of the largest wars the world has ever seen. America has practically dominated the world since 1945. Because of this, I'd consider them a great civilization that history 500 years from now will remember and study, therefore a worthy advisary. Other than that, your post confused me.

Adm.Naismith
I like your idea. We should be able to rename our civilization as the game progresses.

Blade Runner
I'd be happy if Hungary was in the game, but I wouldn't expect it, demand it, or be disapointed if it wasn't. My signature is just a matter of national pride, it really has nothing to do with this thread.

Locutus
I'm not really an expert at programing here, I just want a game I can enjoy. If this version of CtP allows me to choose my oponents, then I don't care if Cuba is in there or not. Once again, I just wanted to know what civilizations are included.

Anyway, I really doubt that I'll buy this game in the first place, since CtP was as terrible as it was. I'm just interested in what civilizations there are.

What I meant was, that NORMALLY "The Most Useless Treads" are created by AH. And now you would give that honor to MagyarCrusader.

That would be unfair to AH.

You are so stupid & arrogant when you say: No! I dont want to play against/with Cubans! They havent deserved it!

ITs really the most unimportant thing against who I play because no civ has special bonuses or traits or something like that! In AOE2 it matters what Civ I play and what civs I play against! In Smac it matters too! But in CtP it doesnt!

Thats like whining: "Mom! Barry has a green ball! I dont want to throw my red ball next to his green one!"

Grow up!

Stratesford
By your logic, we should include the Chechens because they stood up to Russia. Or how about the Palestinians because they stand up to Israel? Sure they don't have a country but oh well! I'm just saying I want civilizations with great historical contributions. Aztecs, Incas or Mayans would be good choices for South America because they built up great cultural empires. Cuba and Nircaragua have not, so it ruins the whole historic atmosphere for me. And this matter sbecause I enjoy history, therefore want it to be at least somewhat historical. If not, the game will not interest me and therefore I shall save my money for something else.

TheBirdMan
This isn't a useless thread. I didn't want a flame war or anything. This thread is about what civilizations are going to be in CtP. I'm sorry people took a minor point I made, blew it out of proportion and changed the topic of the thread. And what is AH?

Locutus
I never downloaded the patches. I played about half of one game and that was enough for me.

samurai
I couldn't choose just 1 leader for Hungary. It'd choose between Attila, Arpad, Stephen, Kossuth, Corvinus, or Horthy. If you are trying to bring up the point that I want Hungary in the game, drop it. I love the country and all but according to most historians it isn't consider a great historical civilization that would rank among the Romans, Egyptians Greeks and Chinese.

Atahualpa
Look man, whatever. I'm not here to bash people's countries, I just wanted some information. Frankly, my feelings towards Cuba and Nircaragua are neutral, its just I don't consider them important historical civilizations. You should probably take your own advice and grow up. You come to these forms with a hostile attitude and start typing insults over the internet, and my opinion actually angers you. It mattered to me in AOE2 what civs I played as or against, and I see no difference for CtP2. If you still want to get bent out of shape because of a minor point I made you should probably ignore my posts, as I will not respond to yours anymore because they contain irrelevant information.

Please, someone respond to this thread if they see any information regarding civilizations. Thank you.

quote: If you play with a lot of Islands, don`t you rather play Indonesia,Cuba,England,Australia,Trinidad Tobago, and that kind of civs just trying to live yourself into the game?

No! Every game I start may be the earth in another parallel universe (not that I would believe this but its better to explain using this model). I dont want a 1:1 copy of THIS world! I like this world to be a model! And the game lets me simulate human evolution in this model! Where the outcome is always different!

quote: I'm sorry people took a minor point I made, blew it out of proportion and changed the topic of the thread

To me its not a minor point!

quote: I never downloaded the patches. I played about half of one game and that was enough for me.

So you didnt play the game but say all the time that it nerves you playing against Cubans when you have played only ONE game?
Isnt that a bit hypocrite?

quote: I'm not here to bash people's countries, I just wanted some information. Frankly, my feelings towards Cuba and Nircaragua are neutral, its just I don't consider them important historical civilizations.

So what? Where is written that only historical important civilizations can enter the universe of Civilization?

quote: You come to these forms with a hostile attitude and start typing insults over the internet, and my opinion actually angers you.

Yeah right it does! Cause its arrogant to say that other civs dont deserve to be in a game because they havent had much importance! Importance does vary from person to person! I like playing Cubans for example!

quote: It mattered to me in AOE2 what civs I played as or against, and I see no difference for CtP2.

Okay here is the difference: In AOE2 every "civ" has a unique tech tree and an own unique unit (or 2 in case of the vikings). Besides every "civ" has some special bonuses.
In CtP2 the name of the "civ" is a wrapper around the AI not more. In CtP1 personalties were fixed for civs so you could throw all slaver civs in one pot cause they acted the same. You could switch the AIs starting places and play the game again by doing the same actions and the outcome would be the same, however with AI's having changed starting places! (theoretically of course). In CtP2 it is different as Personalties are random, so in one game Americans are slavers and in another Americans are researchers!
Thats why it doesnt matter against which civs you play!

Besides why do you want to deny Cuban Players to play their own country? (okay maybe because they dont get to play the game because of the embargo, but fit in other countries and tell me again).
I live in Austria and in no Civ game now I have been able to play my own country, regardless if it is historically important or not I want to do that!

quote: If you still want to get bent out of shape because of a minor point I made you should probably ignore my posts, as I will not respond to yours anymore because they contain irrelevant information

Sorry that is one thing I cant do! Besides I gave you pretty much information here on why it doesnt matter! And again: Its not a minor point to me!
If Cubans are out there are only the Irish left to play for me! And the French.

quote: I don't care who my enemies are, as this doens't change their personality.

See this is exactly my point! But for MagyarCrusader it does matter. However he hasnt explained why!

A little history lesson for all of us. If I make a mistake, please correct it. The people of Cuba and Nicaragua have been around for thousands of years. European man did not find them until Columbus sail here (1492), plus the others, who follow him. America is not a great Civ. Yes I believe we are a great country, but not a great Civ. All of us, that lives here have ancestry to Europe, Asia, Africa, North, Central and South America. The only real American, are the Indians of North, Central and South America. Granted, the people that lives in Cuba and Nicaragua today, are a mix of, Spainish, African, and Indian. The only real Civs from yesterday that are still around today, is the Chinese, Japanese, maybe India and I almost forgot Mongolia. Europe as we know, had everone making a run through it, and so most of the today Europens, have a little of everthing mix in. One of the great Civs of yesterday was the Celts. They move from Northen Germany to lower England, then to Wales, and then to Ireland. I read that Russia and Scotland was started by the Viking. I guess that the Viking are still here today, only in the form of Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland. The Greeces are still here. Someone mention the Palestinian. They have been around for a few thousand years also. I just look them up on the Internet. It looks like they are related to the Philistine. Remmber the Arabs of today are not the people that live in the area (middle east), thousands of years ago. They overran the area when Muhammad was their leader.
------------------

Hi. I wasn't trying to forget the Mayan, Aztecs, or Incas. I though they had been assimilate by Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru. Question, how many pure blood Mayan, Aztecs, Incas survive today.

Last night on the History Channel, they had the story of the Norwegian who sail the raft Kok Tike from Peru to French Polynesia in 1948 to prove that Indians from Peru could have made it a few thousand years ago (the Statues of Easter Island. The Polynesia did get there until the 5th Century. The statues are much older), then he later (1962) went Africa and sail a reed boat from Tunisia to Barbados to prove that maybe the Egyptian came to Mexico a few thousand years ago. As you know there are some similarity between the Pyramids of Egypt and Mexico. Do we know what the early Egyptian look like? The Arabs overran Egypt in the Seven or Eighth Century.

Get the cities right!!
god dammit

OR we will throw the beer bottles at ya!!

That being said it would be great if every country and civilization could be included but imagine it would get out of control and would be cumbersome (that's a lot of cities to establish for each civ).

As long as the Irish are there, I'm happy.

Espescially in an exploration scenario, together with the English, Portugese, French, Spanish, Italians and all the inland civs, who were wiped out by the people mentioned above.

Bye,

You didn't like the names of the Canadian cities: Same for me with the Dutch (sorry, I forgot this point).

the cities: Amsterdam, The Hague, Arnhem, Leeuwarden, Assen, Groningen etc.

All these cities are capitals of a province, except Amsterdam. But the sequence is wrong. Rotterdam should be third, Utrecht fourth, Eindhoven fifth, Groningen sixth.
However, Rotterdam, Utrecht and Eindhoven are coming up as fifteenth and so on.

Leiden comes after Leiderdorp, which is pathetic. Leiden and the missing city Delft are historic and therefor they should be in the game and NOT Ede (a very minor town, more like a village) and Breukelen (same for Ede, but then for the Dutch celeberties and other rich people)

EXCELLENT IDEA!!!!
I would love such an option, it would solve (how did you get that name? ) the debate on this forum!!!

Again: WOW!!!

Bye,

Agree totally with Bartemans that this forum could be used to establish which cities to put on the list for each country. I hardly play the Australian civ because of the ridiculous city ordering and list (I've never heard of some of them, and live here!). The list of English cities I find difficult to justify as well, and I can't imagine that "Head Smashed In" is a real place - even in Canada!

So, NOTE FOR ACTIVISION. Please ask people what cities should be included for country-based civs. Bartemans - do you have a preferred complete list of Dutch cities? If you want to post one, I'll replace my city file to follow it... Anyone else want to contribute?

I know in CivII, you could go into the code rather easily and change the city names, I don't know if you could in CTP, but it would be nice if it was possible in CTP II.

My preferred Dutch city list

1. Amsterdam
2. Rotterdam
3. Den Haag (The Hague)
4. Utrecht
5. Eindhoven
6. Groningen
7. Arnhem
8. Middelburg
9. Maastricht
10. Haarlem
11. Den Bosch
12. Zwolle
13. Leeuwarden
14. Assen
15. Lelystad
16. Enschede
17. Nijmegen
18. Leiden
19. Delft
20. Tilburg
21. Wageningen
22. Roermond
23. Venlo
24. Almere
25. Deventer
26. Kampen
27. Zutphen
28. Vlissingen
29. Apeldoorn
30. Alkmaar
31. Den Helder
32. Breda
33. Dordrecht
34. Hoorn
35. Enkhuizen

Based on: First the nation’s capital and the six largest cities. Then all the capital of the twelve provinces (except Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Eindhoven), all cities until 15 are provincial capitals.

Then other big cities (Dutch standards, of course), cities of historical importance and cities with universities. Cities like Deventer and Kampen are so called "Hanze" cities, which means they became rich by trading and trading posts (important roads went along these cities)

The sequence may not be too accurate, but I’ll work it out.

The last cities in the row come from a road-atlas, so it's not A-OK, but CERTAINLY LOTS!!!! better then the list in CTPI!

Bye,

be happy with what you have

They should include a 'British' civ instead of or as well as 'English', 'Scottish' and 'Welsh'.

These 3 countries do not exist any more. Scotland, England and Wales are all parts of Britian, not their own countries.

Plus, in CTP different countries should be able to have the same head of state (queen Elizabeth II is queen of Britian and Australia, for example). This could create greater trade/ military links between the countries.

The cities list has the national capital first, then the state and territory capitals in rough order of development (trying to balance growth and history is not always easy!). After Darwin you get into the regional centres, which again I've tried to get in rough order of development. I've tried to balance them according to location too. Anyone with a better knowledge of Aussie history is welcome to improve the list!

Note for red_jon. 'Head Bashed In' appears as a Canadian, not an English city (I didn't intend to imply that it was English). Scotland at least is a separate country, with its own legal (and now) political institutions, whilst still being part of the UK. Given the distinct histories up until the Act of Union in the eighteen century, it is certainly worth a place on its own. Queen Elisabeth 2 lists as the female leader for Jamaica, but I do not think it appropriate to use her as the female leader in CTP/CTPII for Canada or Australia, although you are correct that she is the Head of State in both countries. There are and have been in both countries female politicians and celebrities with a greater national impact. (Just as in Britain I'd suggest that Margaret Thatcher and Winston Churchill have been more "important" as leaders than QE2 and King George VI respectively!)

AUSTRALIAN_LEADERM_NAME "Edmund Barton"
AUSTRALIAN_LEADERF_NAME "Caroline Chisholm"
AUSTRALIAN_COUNTRY_NAME "Australia"
AUSTRALIAN_SINGULAR "Australian"
AUSTRALIAN_PLURAL "Australians"