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Topic: xxxo xxxo xxxo ... |  |
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Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 15:27
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Almost the nail in the coffin for SoL if I read this thread right. Hence my question: Can you make the change between any types of governments that you already have discovered during those turns?SoL would still have one advantage, though. Works every turn...  Carolus |
Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 16:22
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I don't know if I've read this thread right, but...It seemed to me that the logical step was to try it even when you have the government techs already and not only when you discover them. So I loaded up an old save as the Romans, a 1040 AD democracy. Revolution in 1040 AD, get the option to pick a government in 1080/1100. Next try, revolution in 1080 and get to pick my government the next turn (1100). So it seems you don't have to discover the tech, you can do it with techs you already have. The nail in the coffin for SoL (which still has one advantage though)? BTW, not sure when a turn ends or starts. Carolus |
Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 16:30
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What the heck???I sent my first post hours ago and couldn't read it afterwards. I get home, try it out, post and now I can see it??? What's with Apolyton today?  Carolus |
Carolus Rex
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 16:52
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Test.  Carolus |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 16:59
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I dont know.It seems to be occuring with more frequency.Server probs or whatever.These are just the turns on which government changes will occur.Nothing more.You don't have to fulfil any "scenario".Just know if you revolt in 3800BC you will not switch until 3650BC. I don't think its the end of the SoL.It still allows early access to Commie and/or Fundy.You don't have to wait any turns for xxx0.Still good when the senate says "NO war" and anarchy becomes a part of the battle plan. No more 2 or 3 turn revolutions.Its a good thing. |
DaveV
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 17:01
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CR - the difference is, if you had discovered a tech which provided a new government in 1100, you would have been given the option to revolt at the start of your turn. If you accepted, you would have had your choice of available governments immediately with no anarchy whatsoever. Even better than SoL! |
rah
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 17:17
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DaveV. You will experience Anarchy in any city that is processed after the city that provides the beakers for the discovery. So the only time that you won't experience any anarchy is when the capital is the city that provides the beakers. If the First city provides the beakers and you choose to revolt all of the rest of your cities will produce in Anarchy for that turn.RAH |
SCG
b.02-15-99
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posted August 22, 2000 19:09
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Just one other tidbit reguarding same turn government changes. If your capitol/last city is the one that produces the final beaker for the govt tech and is currently in WL (We Love) status, it doesn't fall out of WL status, meaning if you don't need an extra turn for that city to reenter WL As an example, you are in We Love the King Day, discover republic, revolt and form a republic on one of the target days, the following turn, that city will grow if it has extra food, rather than waiting to re enter WL. Not sure whether a growing republic city would grow the turn of the revolt or not, but it could continue growing the next turn in democracy if that was the gov change and there still was excess food ------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince *goes off and starts gifting gold and techs* |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted August 29, 2000 00:04
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After having a chance to use this info now in both SP and MP games, I only have one thing to say...WHY IS THREAD DROPPING LIKE A ROCK??????
It' the most important new information in a long time. (actually, just wanted to bump this thread  ) |
rah
b.02-15-99
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posted August 29, 2000 08:24
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Yes, I've used it in my last couple of MP games and it has made a difference. In the last one, I couldn't squeeze enough beakers out to hit monarchy on the right turn. So instead of accepting the revolt option when it was offered, I waited the three turns, and got another tech since I wasn't in anarchy, revolted and was back in business. This is great.RAH |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted August 29, 2000 13:47
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I nailed 2 0f my 3 government changes in OCC 16.Especially good was Republic to Demo. I was celebrating in Republic and because of an "instant" revolution,my "we love" carried over and I didn't have to restart it.xxx0 saved me at least 6 turns in OCC 16.Gotta like it. |
SmartFart
b.02-15-99
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posted September 01, 2000 19:04
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Congratulations!Both for finding and sharing this little gem.
It's been awhile since someone discovered something new besides lag cheat. |
Scouse Gits
b.02-15-99
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posted September 01, 2000 19:35
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Sorry oedo - there is now absolutely no chance of this not getting out to the Game Zone guys - many congratulations upon your discovery but this must go into the Great Library.
___________
The SGs in concert
"The Great Library must be built" |
oedo
b.02-15-99
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posted September 01, 2000 22:52
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hihi, I always had the impression, there´s no better place to hide something from the zonies than this wonderful forum  the coming games will bring me an answer
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rah
b.02-15-99
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posted September 02, 2000 01:34
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Sorry berz, but I must tell this one.With the chart in front of him tonight, Berzerker revolted TWICE in the wrong year. It was good for amusement. RAH
And to make it worse, he said he knew about this prior to Odeo's post but figured it was common Knowledge. Apologies again Berzerker, but it was entertaining when you told us about it. |
War4ever
b.02-15-99
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posted September 03, 2000 04:50
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Well Oedo, nicely done , its people like yourself who make this forum so interesting. I can't believe we are still finding out new information about this game.... talk about a classic I think the spinoff debates and new leads are interesting as well... damm i too tired to think straight..... so no great big questions from me..... but i will check this out tomorrow night ------------------
Ah its good to be back.... i smell the fear of opponents being stalked and i tremble as they turn to face me. i hope i remember how to play! |
Chow Yun Fat
b.02-15-99
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posted September 04, 2000 10:35
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Oedo, THANK YOU!
Can you share with us how you discover this piece of information?
I regret not checking through ALL threads in strategy forums now.
So simple, yet so useful. I feel like cheating to use this on unsuspected opponents! |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted September 04, 2000 21:53
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Hmmm...a buddy has been playing a game here while I "walk" him thru(sorta).I check on his civ every hour or so.Anyway,he steals Commie in 1901 and I tell him to wait and revolt in 1902.He did,1903 came and went without a change.Change happened in 1906 indicating revolt should have been done in 1901.Might have to double check some of those later dates.I think the change in years at 1850 might count as a 2 year increment.Unless I was halucinating(possible) I know 1903 revolts aren't gonna happen all that often but you never know... |
DaveV
b.02-15-99
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posted September 05, 2000 08:12
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Smash - was your buddy playing at King, or lower, difficulty? I had the same problem in MacUser's MP game at King level - the turn intervals aren't the same. What we need now is for some ambitious person to cook up tables for the lower difficulty levels... |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted September 05, 2000 16:49
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Yes! He was on king level and my "list" is for deity.duh  |
DaveV
b.02-15-99
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posted September 06, 2000 15:28
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Here are the key years for King level. Lower levels are left as an exercise for the reader  .-3850 * -925 * 460_ * 1330 * 1715 * 1853 * 1913 * 1973
-3650 * -825 * 540_ * 1370 * 1735 * 1857 * 1917 * 1977
-3450 * -725 * 620_ * 1410 * 1752 * 1861 * 1921 * 1981
-3250 * -625 * 700_ * 1450 * 1760 * 1865 * 1925 * 1985
-3050 * -525 * 780_ * 1490 * 1768 * 1869 * 1929 * 1989
-2850 * -425 * 860_ * 1515 * 1776 * 1873 * 1933 * 1993
-2650 * -325 * 940_ * 1535 * 1784 * 1877 * 1937 * 1997
-2450 * -225 * 1010 * 1555 * 1792 * 1881 * 1941 * 2001
-2250 * -125 * 1050 * 1575 * 1800 * 1885 * 1945 * 2005
-2050 * -25_ * 1090 * 1595 * 1808 * 1889 * 1949 * 2009
-1850 * 60__ * 1130 * 1615 * 1816 * 1893 * 1953 * 2013
-1650 * 140_ * 1170 * 1635 * 1824 * 1897 * 1957 * 2017
-1450 * 220_ * 1210 * 1655 * 1832 * 1901 * 1961 * 2021
-1250 * 300_ * 1250 * 1675 * 1840 * 1905 * 1965
-1050 * 380_ * 1290 * 1695 * 1848 * 1909 * 1969 Note to anyone who wasn't paying attention: King difficulty level only!!!
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited September 15, 2000).] |
Sten Sture
b.02-15-99
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posted September 06, 2000 16:25
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Davey-Dave - are you sure it goes 1986 -> 2000???
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DaveV
b.02-15-99
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posted September 06, 2000 16:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Sten Sture on 09-06-2000 04:25 PM
Davey-Dave - are you sure it goes 1986 -> 2000???
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Pretty sure - why don't you start a new game to double-check me on it . Talk about not paying attention ...
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SandMonkey
b.02-15-99
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posted September 07, 2000 22:15
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sorry I am stupid..Does the SoL nullify these years and allow a revolution any turn? |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted September 07, 2000 23:35
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yes. |
Sequoya
b.02-15-99
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posted September 12, 2000 16:59
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DaveVI have two observations on your list for King level. There appears to be a hiatus between year 1515 and 1635. Also, should the revolution year advance from 1792 to 1800 and then jump to 1818? My observations are based only on mathematics and not on playtesting. Did you playtest your numbers?
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DaveV
b.02-15-99
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posted September 14, 2000 08:57
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Sigh. I should have known better than to take this on. I've updated the table, but I suspect I've made yet another error because my dates don't jibe with those reported by Smash. So speak up, anybody, if you see any mistakes... |
SandMonkey
b.02-15-99
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posted September 14, 2000 20:30
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Dave, your mistake is from 1695-1705. It SHOULD be 1715 instead of 1705, as those turns are still a revolution every 20 years in game terms. |
tonic
b.02-15-99
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posted September 14, 2000 21:12
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I wonder if exceptions occur when you are lucky enough to get a government advance from a hut in a oedo year. In one of the earlier OCC comparison games, I got Monarchy from a hut in the year 725 BC and when I revolted, was not granted Monarchy in that year!I haven't come across this anomaly in other games. |
Paul
b.02-15-99
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posted September 15, 2000 00:43
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That's because you got the advance during the play fase of the turn. New governments are established in the beginning fase of the turn after it has processed all your cities, but before you start moving your units. |
tonic
b.02-15-99
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posted September 15, 2000 00:59
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Thanks, Paul. Therefore if you get a government advance (Monarchy, Republic or Democracy) by exchange or popping a hut during a oedo year, wait four turns before revolting! |
Scouse Gits
b.02-15-99
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posted September 15, 2000 05:22
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Surely, tonic, you mean 3 turns not four - if I have grasped this thing correctly the ideal is to discover the government tech in an 'oedo year' and accept the offer of a change of government on the spot. Failing that sort of micromanagement of science or discovery by hut, conquest, trade etc you should hold your Revolution in the turn preceeding the oedo year.Someone please correct me if I have got the wrong end of the stick - again! Good civin'   ------------------
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Scouse Git[1] "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!" |
DaveV
b.02-15-99
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posted September 15, 2000 07:37
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SG1 - you're right. To put it very precisely, the revolt should come before the start of your turn on the oedo year. I say it this way because I discovered (to my relief) that you can revolt during another player's turn in MP.SandMonkey - thanks for the correction. I've updated the king table yet again, but the numbers still don't match Smash's report  ... |
SandMonkey
b.02-15-99
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posted September 16, 2000 16:49
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Dave, according to what Smash said, your chart is dead on.
quote:
Originally posted by Smash on 09-04-2000 09:53 PM
He did,1903 came and went without a change.Change happened in 1906 indicating revolt should have been done in 1901.
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Revolt should have been done in 1901, which is one of the years on your chart. He said the change happened in 1906, but could this be one of those "everything happens then the year rolls around" type of things? Like maybe his buddy only noticed what year it was after the year had changed? that might now have made any sense.... |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted September 16, 2000 23:51
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Yes a mistake my end could have happened easily.It probably was 1905.This looks good now. |
Taian
b.02-15-99
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posted September 17, 2000 15:06
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Does this work with techs you get from huts as well (or in negotiation with other civs)? And, if so, since that is basically an instant revolution in the middle of a turn, can it work with the SoL on the turns indicated as another way to circumvent that annoying senate not wanting to go to war but not losing a turn to anarchy? |
Smash
b.02-15-99
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posted September 17, 2000 17:27
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No.You can't have an "instant" revolution if you get government tech from a hut.Yes.If the next turn is O,and the senate says "no war",then anarchy-attack-next turn new government.It worked for perfectly for me in a game. |
cavebear
b.02-15-99
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posted October 13, 2000 18:50
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I just discovered the GL thread and got lead to this one. Better late than never, I guess.Just wanted to say how stunned I am that such a straightforward pattern was never noticed before and to extend my amazed congratulations to Oedo for 1) discovering it, and 2) sharing it. I will most certainly keep this information close at hand for all future games! |
Ming
b.02-15-99
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posted November 02, 2000 08:33
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***BUMP***I was playing in a MP game the other night, and I had an embassy with my opponent. I noticed he went into revolt a few turns before a switch year. So obviously not everybody is aware of this yet, and I thought it was worth bumping! ------------------
Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net |
East Street Trader
b.02-15-99
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posted November 07, 2000 09:26
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Hhhmm. What am I doing wrong? I had my copy of rah's helpful chart close to hand, monarchy came in, seemingly right on time, with the screen showing BC1650, an "O" year in the Oedo xxxo callender so I took the offer to change government. But my turn promptly ended without any screen appearing to announce my coronation. And I then had 3 years of anarchy with no tax income and no research taking place.I was tired and maybe misread the screen somehow - or is it that the coronation always takes place the next year? If so you need to accept/initiate the change of gov.t on the year before the Oedo year. But, from recollection, you can get crowned during the same year you accept (which I have assumed, since reading Oedo's breakthrough, happened when, by coincidence, my research has given me the new form of gov.t in an Oedo year? Looks like I'll have to experiment a couple of times in cheat mode to get the sequence of events right. <font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited November 07, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited November 07, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited November 07, 2000).] |
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