What use would that be?! Tell me again.

I used it in a SP game, and thought it could be useful in a MP game...

What uses for a food caravan except to fill the granaries?!

One other question if this is kosher, is once a food trade route is established how do you get rid of it? I've tried making new ones but I can't get rid of it!! Doh!

Its probably a question asked alot and I have made an effort to backtrack through the volumes of backdated messages but there are tons of em! You people do message alot!

Eddy

If you want to cancel a food route, the best way i have seen is just send a food caravan from a different city to the one you are trying to cancel the route in. The +1 food will cancel the -1.

But what's that about food caravans being a cheat? That's probably the most ridiculous thing i've ever ... ogh, next thing you know someone is going to claim building cities on mountain hexes is a cheat too

Food caravans per se is not a cheat, how can they be? Using them for wonder building or disbanding purposes is no different than using commodity caravans!

It's the food caravan trick that some people (your's truly included) consider a cheat.

Was growing cities one pop a turn using food caravans intended by the designers? I wasn't referring to adding one food per turn, obviously that's not a cheat!

(1) They cost the same to build as any other caravan. Since they really represent a city-to-city transfer of shield resources, their contribution to the Wonder should be the same.

Now I'm really confused...

So, if I establish a food caravan to a city, then get another city to cancel that route by forming another, can I not then re-establish another food trade route?

....and so on? Is that cheating.... and then who would know if that was done... and not the other way?!

Now, the "food caravan trick" consists of making a food caravan, sending it out of the city,, then back in, producing a trade food loop for one city?

On the other hand, I've been doing a lot of building of units, buildings, and so on, by sending out a food caravan from one city to another, then disbanding it on arrival. This I take to be the ewuivalent of transferring resoources from one city to another in order to build things, and I sure hope nobody is going to tell me it's a cheat.

Last thing, what is "ship-chaining?" I don't think I've ever done it, but just to make sure...

Thanks,

The basic form:
City A is the city you want to grow.
City B is the city supplying the caravans.

Send a food caravan from city B to A.
The first caravan fills the food box for city A.
Rush build food caravan in city B.
Next turn, send another food caravan from city B to A. This will add a population to city A.
Repeat until you get bored.
Every two turns, city A will grow by one population. You can get cities over 100 pop this way.

City B will only show a minus one to it's food, even if it sends 50 caravans to city A.
As long as it keeps sending them to the SAME city.

You can use half your cities to make the other half grow over 100.

I see your point about many food caravans from one city to another making the city grow 1 population point every 2 turns.

Do we not consider WLTC days in Demo and Rep, 1 population point every 1 turn a cheat?

My point being, if your in Fundy and you want your population to grow as good as in Demo and Rep, this is the only way!

If someone wishes to spend tons of resources on food caravans and not on building other units or wonders or something, isn't that just a different strategy?

Problem is, the damn ship never leaves!

Units with an attack strength of 0 do not help with happiness. (camels, transports and spies)

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

Now - of course you can't do this once you have advanced to the point of having musketeers as you cheapest unit - the trick now becomes to initially select barracks, buy, change to musk and move on up - yes! even with the 50% switch penalty you do better buying a barracks first - please try it! (I learnt this one from Xin myself!)

Just for completeness, the bit at a time approach only works for units. However, if you must start with an empty box buy the barracks (warrior) first just to get some shields in the box then switch to the item you desire.

George trade if you do not use caravans for trade (as well) you are missing out in a big way - the extra trade from a trade route improves happiness and increases your science production - the initial gold bonus is matched by a (hidden) beaker bonus that can transform your science performance beyond recognition - do give it a try - you will truly be amazed.

Enjoy

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Scouse Git[1]

Coal/Athens to Newcastle

whatever my plans are. Then when I'm moving I just flip between applications to check up on where they're going. Of course you have to keep checking and maybe updating if demands (or your plans) change. I also use it to keep a list of cities to check each turn while I'm running a "Love the leader" session to grow my cities.

Here's a weird thing I've seen, might be a bug - does this happen to anyone else? I start building a freight because the city shows it can supply something good (like gold or oil), but when it's completed - food is the only option given. I know a city's supply and demand can change randomly, but can what it supplies go away? It's possible that a freight from another city arrived in the meanwhile, but that shouldn't cause this.

Just to be on the safe side, I never chose oil, but I imagine that this could conceivably have led to a trade route between this city and itself.

Anybody ever seen anything like that, and does anybody know why it happens?

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B>> This never-ending, movement-by-"ship" complaining... PLEASE grasp the game fact that "ships" are a CONCEPT, NOT actual, individual vessels. As pointed out elsewhere in the gripe about "it takes forever for a ship to cross an ocean"(the polar opposite of the complaint herein), this the only way the designers could reasonable & effectively provide for ocean transporting of units. Think about.
B1> Is there any ship that has ever existed that could transport 2 complete divisions, corps, armies (whatever size U want to assign to a Civ unit)?
Naval units = a FLEET of vessels going back & forth during a given time frame to move entire units; but how could U show that on a grand strategy scale... dozens of little icons surrying back & forth while everyone is taking their turns?
b2> If U can grasp that, then the "unrealistic" "cheat" of "chaining" ships fades away. It simply represents as best it can in this game, the building & applying FLEETS of vessels to the task of rapidly moving large #'s of units / caravans. Ala; the convoys of WWII, the Spanish armada, movements of all large forces or supplies across water throughout history.
b3> It's like so many other things in this GRAND STRATEGY game... the units are CONCEPTUAL representations of what is / can take place. In general, whether it is caravans or ships, the more time & resources U spend, it only stands to reason... the faster the job gets done.

Make sense? Now play on...

quote: Originally posted by George Garrett on 04-16-2000 12:00 PM Praise be to Ming, and others, for their tips on growing cities, via caravans, and ship-chaining. Speaking for myself, the only "cheat" is when one toggles the "cheat" switch...

The food caravan issue in question is a BUG, and utilizing said is a cheat. Clearly, the game was designed to take one food from the source city to the destination. The fact that it happens properly to different cities, but improperly to just one, should allow you to use the cognitive powers God gave you to determine something isn't right...

But again, another reason why it's good to discuss before a MP game what is legal, and what isn't. There is still major differences of opinions on what is legal or not.

Against the computer, it really doesn't matter. You are playing for fun. Since no one really seems to be playing to beat records and have them posted, how you play against the computer is a personal matter.
If you want to cheat... fine. As long as you having fun, who really cares.
Now, MP is a different matter

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex on 04-17-2000 07:34 AM I do the same thing with any units available (if I can spare them), especially if it's a vulnerable city. Problem is, the damn ship never leaves!

Yes, the barbarian ship will eventually leave... it may take quite a few turns (and may even be related to discovery of particular advances, since units in random barbarian production are determined by the advances discovered).