since this was a scenario perhaps I should mention it was deity level

Just read the thread more carefully, Well done, Tom! I had estimated Paul's 1725 landing, but never expected it to be substantially trimmed.

v2.42 - deity
1863 landing - guess that's no banana!

I simply cannot instill sufficient urgency into my middle game - the medieval period drags on forever - I shall have to force myself to research in 5 at a loss rather than 6 at a gain.

Monarchy -2850
Republic -325
Democracy 220

Colossus -1650
Shakespeare's -250
Copernicus' 60
Darwin 660
Isaac's 880
Apollo 1800

Trade -1650
Construction -1250
Invention 100
Sanitation 940
Refrigeration 1220
Automobile 1560
Space Flight 1798

Trade route#1 -625
Trade route#2 -625
Trade route#3 -500

Gold:
Trade routes: 2174
Huts + Barbarians: 525
Tribute: 6292 including 17 from death of Vikings

I was short of freights for the SS, but fortunately the war chest was well stocked.

Sten, it took me ages to realize that the tech tree was open - and then I didn't know what to do with it!!!

Great map great game - might even replay it tons of enjoyment even if I have come in last - again!

Scouse Gits rueing the day they played as Rue Paul --
4000BC
OK, Sten, I see the coal in the right place, but ...
moves Chariot - Gold!, Silk - I can build - first tip this hut ...
another Chariot that can just catch the boat ...
Ahhh - Wheat not a bad start and a second hut - have to delay founding until its tipped
3950 - Another Chariot - maybe I should go for an OCC Conquest ... Liverpool founded
3900 - Hut Wandering Tribe (None) - I must have a lousy love life
3750 - Hut 25g, Hut Currency
3700 - Warrior
3600 - Warrior
3550 - Hut Alpabet
3400 - Code of Laws
3350 - Warrior, Start Colossus
3200 - Obliging Barbarian Trireme makes Trireme Veteran
3000 - Hut Archers (None), Meet Vikings - Peace - refuse to trade Knowledge because ...
2950 - Monarchy (the first time I have ever counted beakers exactly), Revolution
2950 - Vikings trade Code of Laws for Writing, Warrior Code for Map Making, give them Currency & Monarchy for Maps - they are so weak - I think I feel some mayhem coming on ...
2900 - Hut Feudalism
2850 - Government turns to MONARCHY, Trireme finally fit again
2750 - Bash Vikings - fortify on adjacent mountain
2650 - Vikings hurl themselves to destruction
2550 - Hut Archers (None)
2500 - Vikings hurl themselves to destruction
2450 - Chariot (Vet) destroys Viking Civilisation - 17 gold plundered - that was fun!
2400 - Hut Horseback Riding
2200 - Hut 50g
2150 - Find Aztecs - peace - gift CoL, CB & Monarchy for maps - see Mongols Oh Goody
2000 - Hut Horseman, Find Romans - gift BW & Writing for maps
1950 - Hut Barbarian Horse - destroyed
1850 - Romans in alliance, but no money, Aztecs Worshipful, but no alliance
1800 - Mysticism
1650 - COLOSSUS, Hut TRADE
1500 - Library, Hut Iron Working - Barbarians at the gate - two killed one going for my coal mine
1450 - coal mine destroyed
1350 - get Masonry and 25g from Romans
1300 - Beads Caravan built
1250 - get CONSTRUCTION and 25g from Romans
1200 - Literacy, Mongols offer 100g for peace - happy to oblige
1100 - Roman maps
1000 - Romans 100g
0975 - Americans offer 150g for peace - MWHC is slipping
0950 - Zulus - get Pottery, The Wheel, 150g, maps and alliance!!!
0900 - Horseman killed by Barbarians
0850 - Romans 50g
0800 - allies - nothing
0750 - Temple
0700 - PHILOSOPHY - MEDICINE
0675 - Romans Polytheism; Zulus 25g
0650 - more Barbarians coming calling
0625 - Coal & Silk neither required to Washington 80g each, Zulus 25g
0550 - Americans 25g
0525 - Barbarians to the South, North & East - looks bad for the kid ...
0500 - Hides to Rome unwanted 88g
0475 - Mathematics
0425 - Romans 25g; Zulus 50g; Aztecs The Republic; Revolution
0350 - Barbarian Leader 150g; Start WLTanarchistD
0325 - REPUBLIC
0275 - Sell Temple
0250 - SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE
0225 - Romans 50g; Zulus Engineering & 50g
0175 - Aqueduct
0125 - Romans Seafaring & 50g; Aztecs Banking & Maps
0100 - Harbour
0050 - WLTCD stops at size 11 (Trireme at sea)
0025 - Romans 100g; Zulus 50g (now Icy!);

code:

---

+----------------------------------------------+
| In this the First Year of Our Lord, Mighty   |
| Consul Rue Paul has decreed that this humble |
| scribe should describe to the waiting world  |
| of Aployton the wondrous state of our in-    |
| comparable city of Liverpool.  As it is      |
| written, so let it be ...                    |
|                                              |
| Liverpool, size 11 population 660,000        |
|  Food 22; Trade 62; Tax 12g; Science 75      |
|  Tax Rate 2.0.8 Researching Invention (0 in) |
|  Trade routes Washington 6; Washington 6 &   |
|  Rome 6.                                     |
|  A fifth Food Caravan will be produced this  |
|  year and one of our remaining two Warriors  |
|  will be sacrificed to make the Sixth that   |
|  we need to observe the Stars.               |
|  Our glorious NONE army currently comprises  |
|  Two Archers, Three Veteran Chariots and a   |
|  noble Settler without whos offices we must  |
|  surely have failed.  Our Veteran Trireme    |
|  is Tenochtitlan bound with a Gold caravan.  |
+----------------------------------------------+

---

First, as has become custom, my key stats for the table:

AC Landing: 1779

Mon: 2850 BC
Repub: 1050 BC
Demo: 225 AD

Col: 2150 BC
Copes: 600 BC
Shakes: 225 AD
Newtons: 320 AD
Darwin: 840 AD
Apollo: 1440 AD

First Trade: 1200 BC
Second: 1200 BC
Third: 1150 BC

Turns: I don't know

Size 12: 825 BC
Size 21: 540 AD

Now, from looking at the highlights other than the landing date you'd have thought I'd done well. Well I didn't. Here's the log:

BC
4000 Hut, Chariot (NONE)
3900 Hut, Archer (NONE)
Build OrangegroveCity
3850 Hut, Nomads (rock n roll)
3700 hut, Archers (not NONE)
3650 Alphabet
Build Warrior
Hut, Chariot (NONE, someone must be close)
3550 Vikings, Peace, Writing
3350 Build Warrior
Begin Colossus
In the last three turns my power has gone from Moderate, to Weak, to Mighty!
3250 Hut, Code of Laws
3050 Romans, Peace, Horseback Riding
3000 Mongols, Alliance, 50 gold
2950 Hut, Monarchy (rock and roll, baby)
Revolution
2900 Aztecs, Alliance
Hut, Currency
2850 In Monarchy
2800 Hut, Archers (NONE)
2700 Hut, Mapmaking
Vikings, Share Maps
Aztecs, Maps
2650 Romans & Mongols, Maps
Vikings, 50 gold
2600 Hut, Horseman (NONE)
2550 Americans, Peace, 50 gold, Masonry, Mysticism
Hut, Horseman (NONE)
2500 Americans, Pottery
This is really starting to annoy me. My power is supreme, I give away pretty much all tech I've got and no bugger will ally with me. Why?
Hut, 50 gold
Barb Leader, 150 gold
2450 Zulus, 50 gold, Peace, Maps
2400 NONE Archer gets home, Disband Warrior
2300 Hut, Construction (and still no more alliances damn it. and no tributes!!)
2250 Aztecs, 25 gold
2150 Build Colossus
NONE Chariot gets home, Disband Warrior
Trade
2100 Romans, Alliance (eh? they've been refusing for the past 30 or whatever turns)
Switch production from Library to Caravan
2000 Hut, 50 gold
Aztecs, 50 gold
1950 Hut, 100 gold
1900 Build Caravan, Hides
Zulus, 25 gold
1850 Hut, Mathematics
1800 Build Caravan, Gold
1750 Vikings, 25 gold
Americans, 50 gold
1700 Build Caravan, Coal
Hut, 50 gold
Romans, 25 gold
1550 Build Library
Aztecs, 50 gold
1500 Astronomy (should have gone for lit, thought an AI would have it by now)
1400 Romans, 25 gold
Build Temple
1300 Aztecs, Literacy
1250 Americans & Zulus, 50 gold
1200 Gold Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 108 gold
Coal to Trondheim, 60 gold
Vikings, The Wheel
1150 Build Colosseum
Philosophy, The Republic, Revolution
Hides Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 96 gold
1050 Build Aquaduct
In Republic
Begin Cope's
Barb Leader, 150 gold
1000 WLTCD begins, size 6
950 Romans, 25 gold
925 Medicine
Remember I have a supported Archer, Disband it.
900 Mongols, 50 gold (finally. they are so glum these days)
875 Aztecs, 25 gold
850 Aztecs, 25 gold (I love those Aztecs)
825 WLTCD ends, size 12
Information:
Rates = 00/80/20
Tech/Turn = 5
Gold = 342
Arrows = 68
Sheilds = 11
Food Surplus = 2
800 Romans, 25 gold, Iron Working
775 Aztecs, 75 gold (unusual amount)
750 University
725 Aztecs, 100 gold (they love me!)
675 Aztecs & Romans, Maps
650 Aztecs, 50 gold
600 Build Copernicus' Observatory (now 3 turn/tech)
Romans, 50 gold
550 Aztecs, Banking
525 Aztecs, 50 gold
450 Sanitation
400 Aztecs, 50 gold
350 Invention
300 Aztecs & Romans, 50 gold
Mongols, 100 gold
250 Democracy, Revolution
Zulus, 100 gold
Vikings & Americans, 150 gold
This turn has made me realise how much I ought to be allied to more civs. What did I do wrong? I am losing out on a lot of gold here. I think if I don't get a good landing date it will be primarily because I was not allied to more than 3 civs.
225 Build Shakespeare's Theatre
Sell Colosseum
In Democracy
Aztecs & Mongols, 25 gold
200 Sell Temple
175 Build Sewer System
WLTPD begins, size 12
150 Aztecs, 50 gold
125 Chemistry
75 Romans & Aztecs, 50 gold
25 WLTPD ends, size 17
Gunpowder

AD
1 Build University
20 Aztecs, 50 gold
Mongols, 150 gold
Zulus, Economics, Alliance (agreed to crush Americans), 100 gold
40 Explosives
Aztecs, Seafearing (finally!)
Americans, Cease Fire
60 Aztecs, 50 gold
80 Metallurgy
100 Mongols, 50 gold
120 Navigation
140 Aztecs & Romans, 50 gold
160 Physics
200 Zulus, 25 gold
220 Magnetism
240 Americans, Peace, Maps
Zulus, Maps
280 Electricity
300 Aztecs, 100 gold
320 Build Issac Newton's Observatory
Mongols, 50 gold
340 Refrigeration
360 Barb Leader, 150 gold
Build Engineers
Zulus, 100 gold
380 Build Engineers
420 Build Supermarket
WLTPD begins, size 15
All Allies, 50 gold
440 Build Harbour
460 Aztecs, Bridge Building, 50 gold
Romans, Maps
480 Build Marketplace (yes, I waited this long)
500 Railroad
520 Aztecs, 50 gold
540 Aztecs, 100 gold
(OrangegroveCity is size 21)
560 Build Caravan, Wine
580 Build Caravan, Copper
Industrialisation
620 WLTPD ends, size 24
Romans, 100 gold
640 The Corporation
660 Americans, Maps
Zulus & Mongols, 50 gold
680 Refining
Aztecs, 100 gold
700 Romans, 50 gold
720 Steel
760 Combustion
800 Automobile (Americans built Leo's last turn, lol)
Romans, Conscription
820 Copper Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 96 gold
840 Build Darwin's Voyage
Electronics, Mass Production
Aztecs, Fuedalism
Wine Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 234 gold
860 Romans and Zulus, 50 gold
Mongols, 100 gold
880 Build Mass Transit
Chivalry
900 Mongols, 50 gold
920 Leadership
Romans, 100 gold
940 Build Superhighways (science at 100% would yeild 900 beakers exactly)
960 Tactics
Mongol, Zulus & Romans, 50 gold
1000 Machine Tools
1020 Build factory
1040 Miniaturization
1080 Computers
Romans & Zulus, 50 gold
Mongols, 100 gold
1100 Build Research Lab
1120 Flight
1160 Radio
Build Hydro Plant
Realize I ain't gonna get bigger, Sell Sewer System
1180 Sell Aquaduct
1200 Advanced Flight
Build Offshore Platform
1240 Rocketry
1280 Space Flight (production currently 50)
Romans, 50 gold
Aztecs, Communism
1320 Plastics
1380 Atomic Theory
1440 Build Apollo Program
Nuclear Fission
Hmm. Production of 58. I seem to have forgotten Manufacturing Plant.
1460 AI has started swapping techs like crazy. They aren't happy with me.
1480 Build 1 Structural
Expel Viking Diplo, no dount on it's way to steal SF
1500 Mobile Warfare (finally
1520 Robotics (again, finally)
1540 Nuclear Fission
Expel another Viking Diplo
1550 Build Manufacturing Plant (production now 83. phew)
1570 The Laser
1600 Superconductor
Expel another Vik Dip
1630 Fusion
1660 Vikings Sneak Attack (been waiting for it to happen). NONE settler dead.
Kill a Vik Dip and a Cavalry
1670 Guerrilla Warfare
Build Armor
1680 Disband Triereme
1690 Disband Chariot
1730 Romans cancel Alliance
1740 Sell University
1764 Launch. At bloody last. I thought I was gonna get a really good landing date. Oh well.
1779 Land. Oh dear. I thought it would be a great victory for me. AI didn't put up much of a fight. The Vikings sent one or two units over and noone else did anything at all.

Right, I know it's a silly and demanding question, but where did I go wrong? I wanted to have more alliances, I never built a stock exchange, I forgot about manufacturing plants and so on. What should I remember not to do next time? Anyway, this was a good one, I enjoyed it, but as I've said I was dissapointed.

Graag

First Thoughts

4000 BC I'm thinking of founding my city of Zwolle after sending the trireme south to discover wheat and chariot south on the river discovering gold! I consider it fortunate to have then gone north to gather a none archer mercenary within the turn. The archer found Spice! But then the Trireme found a hut! Things can only go downhill:

Pregame Log

Establishing new goverments:
Monarchy-2650 -2650
Republic -600 -520
Democracy +860 +940
Wonders
Colossus -3100 -1600
Copernicus +80 +280
Shakespeare +280 +500
Newton +760 +980
Darwin +1640 +1660
Apollo +1774 +1778
Trade routes
First -50
Second +20
Third +860 ! second attempt at third caravan!
Scientific discoveries - dates
Trade -1450
Cons -825
San +500
Refr +1280
Auto +1610
Comp +1700
SF +1776
AC +1851
City population
Size 12 -250
Size 19 +720
Size 21 +1600 (?)
Size 24 +1630
Version 2.42

Game log

4000 BC Bronze/Ceremonial/WC-pre-working settler near wheat. None Chariot/None Archer.
3800 BC Hut 50gd
3750 BC Hut archer
3700 BC Founded the City of Zwolle
3600 BC Hut Alpha!
3600 BC Vikings-Peace/refused alliance/tributed mapmaking
3300 BC Most uncanny … rush bought settler and then found a none settler in a hut. Don't know whether to apply the settler shields to colossus or work the land fast. Should have checked the hut first but how often do we find nomads?!
3250 BC Settler to warrior
3200 BC Code of Laws
3200 BC Hut Pottery
3150 BC Vikings destroyed by Mongols (and barbarians )
3150 BC Size 2 and two settlers working two special mines
3100 BC Warrior to Colossus
2900 BC Romans destroyed by barbarians
2900 BC Hut Barb in hills!
2850 BC Lost Chariot to barb horsy
2650 BC Monarchy researched and established
2600 BC Zulu's destroyed by barbarians
2600 BC Hut Zwolle Archer-good news as it is so far from home.
2300 BC Size 3
2150 BC Writing to Currency
2000 BC Barbarian uprising-first barbarians to visit this peninsula
1900 BC Livy's Epic History: OCCer's most advanced
1800 BC Currency to Trade
1700 BC Barbarian Booty (Total: 225gd)
1600 BC Colossus to Library
1450 BC Trade to Masonry
1150 BC Americans undertaken Pyramids
1100 BC Library to Marketplace
1000 BC Masonry to Construction
1050-BCBarbarian horse
1000 BC Dead Archer
950--BC Hut Chariot
925--BC Hut Mysticism
825 BC Construction to Literacy
750 BC Hut Feudalism
600 BC Literacy to Republic
600 BC Aztecs-Peace/traded for Republic/Refused alliance/tributed 150gd
625 BC Researching Philosophy
550(?)BC Revolting
525 BC Republic Established
525 BC Have built Marketplace/Granary/Pikeman/ and working on Temple
500 BC Temple to Coliseum and disbanded warrior
500 BC Commencing WLTCD Still size three
475 BC Killed Barbarian leader (total: 258gd)
450 BC Coliseum to aqueduct
350 BC Gifted Aztecs two sciences but still declined alliance/shared maps
350 BC Sold Granary to keep pace on WCTCD Size 8
325 BC Aqueduct to Bank
325 BC Philosophy to Banking to Mathematics
275 BC Emmisary from MyWifeHatesCiv of the Americas
Peace-traded for Wheel and Horseback Riding/Gave Writing and Republic/Neutral to Worshipful
Shared Maps but MWHC considers an Alliance only intriguing. Seems to be preoccupied with
Barbarians from defunct Zulu. Pity, he seems an honorable man.
275 BC Aztecs alliance for Philosophy….forgot to give away the science house but got 50 gd.
250 BC Size 12 WLTCD ends
150 BC Aztecs Request War with Mongols. For 50gd, we are persuaded.
150 BC Mathematics to Astronomy
125 BC Bank to Caravan….very late for Zwolle Traders
50 BC Caravan (Beads) to Caravan
25 BC Mongol cease fire for Construction
20 AD Caravan(Copper) to Caravan
80 AD Happy day in Zwolle: Third Caravan and Astronomy to Medicine Commencing Copernicus
120 AD Barbarians have captured Philadelphia and Boston from MWHC
160 AD Generous Zwolle Traders give away the House of Science to Aztec Allies/ Receive 100gd gift
240 AD Zwolle Celebrates belated first Caravan (240gd to Aztec Ten')
260 AD Medicine to Engineering
280 AD Copernicus built and Commencing Shakespeare
300 AD Mongols have situated themselves on a fortress of MY gold! Got Peace.
320 AD Mongols Break Peace! Typical. Atleast we can use the gold again. None Archer dies
320 AD Decided to avoid mongols trade and diverted gold caravan to MWHC
320 AD Engineering to Sanitation
400 AD Barbarian destroys Gold Caravan! Third Caravan! I am Pissed!
420 AD Hut Invention
420 AD MWHC-trade for seafaring and ironworking/Gave away lots of Science
420 AD Caravan to Aztec Teo' for 202gd
460 AD Finally sold Temple! Don't seem to have that luxury has been at 20% since the last WCTCD
480 AD Sold Coliseum
500 AD Shakes to coliseum to switch to Sewer System
500 AD Sanitation to University
520 AD Commencing WLTCD
540 AD Sewer System to Harbor
680 AD Habor built Lord MacCauleys Largest civilizations: Mongols/OCC'er! /Americans/Aztecs to build 680 AD University to ToG
680 AD Carvans(coal) to caravan Disbanded settler
720 AD Caravan to University End WCTCD size 19
760 AD University to Issacs and ToG to Gunpowder (want those engineers!)
820 AD Gunpowder to Chemistry
820 AD Aztec /got Polythesism….yuck
820 AD MWHC given many gifts, but seems independent
860 AD Third Caravan(Coal) to Washington
860 AD MWHC/traded for Democracy!
940 AD Democracy established
960 AD Chemistry to Explosives (gave away all science to Aztecs/no gifts
980 AD Issacs to caravan
1000 AD Explosives to Metallurgy
1040 AD Metallurgy to Bridgebuilding
1080 AD Bridge Building to Navigation
1100 AD Gave away all science to MWHC and the Aztecs
1120 AD Navigation to Physics
1160 AD Physics to Magnetism
1200 AD Magnetism to Electricity
1200 AD 1st Engineer (got 5 caravans)
1240 AD Electricity to Refrigeration
1280 AD Refrigeration to Economics
1320 AD Economics to Steam Engine
1320 AD 2nd Engineer to Supermarket
1360 AD Steam Engine to Railroad
1360 AD Supermarket to Stock exchange
1380 AD Gaveaway science to Aztec and MWHC
1400 AD Railroad to Industrialization
1400 AD Stock exchange to Camel
1440 AD Industrialization to Corporation
1480 AD Corporation to Electronics
1480 AD Freight to factory
1510 AD Electronics to Refining
1510 AD MWHC Chivalry for Industrialization -we refused to give Railroad
1520 AD Factory to Hydro Plant
1530 AD Refining to Steel
1530 AD Caravan(silk) 240 gd to Washington
1540 AD Hydro Plant to Freight
1540 AD Commencing WLTPD
1550 AD Steel to Combustion
1580 AD Combustion to Automobile
1610 AD Automobile to Mass Production
1610 AD Freight(copper) 138gd to Zimbabwe (Barbarian)
1610 AD Tacitus Most powerful-Mongols/Aztec/Americans/OCCers
1630 AD Mass Production to Leadership
1630 AD Superhighway to Freight
1630 AD End WLTPD Size 24
1640 AD Starting Darwin
1650 AD Leadership to Tactics
1660 AD Completed Darwins Tactic to Machine tools to Miniaturization
1670 AD Alpine to Freight
1680 AD Miniaturization to Computer
1700 AD Computers to Mobile Warfare
1700 AD Terraformed Coal to Buffalo
1720 AD Mobile Warfare to Robotics
1740 AD Robotics to Flight
1752 AD Flight to Radio
1756 AD Sold Sewer System
1758 AD Radio to Advance Flight
1758 AD Sold Aqueduct
1764(?) AD Advance Flight to Rocketry
1770 AD Rocketry to Space Flight
1774 AD Manufacturing Plant to Wonder
1776 AD Space Flight to Plastics
1778 AD Apollo Project completed
1780 AD First Structure
1790 AD Plastics to Atomic Theory
1796 AD Atomic to NF
1802 AD NF to NP
1808 AD NP to Laser
1808 AD traded for Monothesism/gifted 100gd
1814 AD Laser to Superconductor
1820 AD SC to Fusion ….Can't build one turn modules…no more freight
1830 AD Fusion finally got 100/0/0 tax rate (completing 2nd Module
1836 AD launched Ship Estmated time of arrival 1851
1851 AD AC

Nice game Tom, looks like we finally have a competition.

Hey, did anyone terraform the Wheat to spice? What is better, getting a bigger city with Wheat food or having more trade with Silk?

AU

Graag

That said, I would agree that removing huts would provide a closer comparison game. I would go one step further and make the entire map visible at the start. Finding AI civs involves some luck while exploring.

Graag

Originally,the fortnight proposal was to play maps rather than sites.Now it ain't much fun wandering around,not finding a spot till 1000bc and find out it is 2 squares from Rome
But,maybe a map with several spots with differing special combos fairly close by.
Or even revealing several spots.The player could decide which one looks best to them.Factors such as "How long is it gonna take to get there?".Will I have to cross unfriendly territory?""Is that extra whale worth an extra 500 years of wandering"

I think I can make an open map with no huts, and maybe no barbs either.

But concerning terraforming the Wheat to Silk, I really wondered about what is most important, getting the extra 2 citizens during pre size 20 City or all the trade with the multipliers? That River Silk might be valuable. But in this hilly game, food was probably essential.

By the way Hoss, nice score. You obviously have studied hard--though your hut science was most enviable. I take it you like OCC. Have you tried MP yet? What other games do you play?

In my game, when my Chariot left the boat for the wood hut, it knew it was 20 tiles from home and the only emmisary of our civilization....should NEVER have risked it! And as some have said, there are moments to guard the hut for later. I little further away was MWHC or NGMAABTAMS for Never Gave me an Alliance but took all my science. I should have stayed in the boat and said hello early on.

When you do look at Paul's and Tom's logs, you see some good moves that demonstrate their OCC skills. I like that Tom built some early frieght with the boat. They both sold their coliseums after size 12. Lots of gold in those logs suggesting good diplomacy.

When I think back, I had a great start and could have insured a better end. Should have given the Vikings Bronze !

I don’t think that I can play MP. I have v2.42(?) and I don’t think you can do it with that version. Anyway, my schedule is quite erratic at this time and I don’t see how I could convince someone to play when I’m available.

Other games? I played Age of Empires a bit and for awhile I was into Railroad Tycoon, but I’m not much of a game player. I always liked strategy/dominate the world games, and back in the days before computers I couldn’t get enough of Stratego and Risk. I guess that’s what drew me to CIV.

Thanks for that engineering. I guess with double irrigated wheat, there is no question that the food is better than the trade concerning Wheat vs Silk. I just did some similar tests and understand your take. Maybe Wine is better than wheat... if you speedsters have the time !

Early on, when population is limited by aqueduct, the silk is probably superior to the wheat...though quickly growing from size 1 to 2 is probably crucial in this one settler competition. The race to Monarchy and Trade might override food or city size--I've been assuming such.

Well, since it seems the latest trend here, first the highlights:

3650 BC Empress Snow White founds 7 Dwarfs
2650 BC Gvt changed to Monarchy
1950 BC Colossus, Construction as trib from Mongols
1750 BC Trade
1350 BC First route, Hides to Trondheim
1050 BC Gvt changed to Republic
1000 BC WLTCD, size 4, 2nd route, Beads to Washington
950 BC 3rd route, Coal to Washington
850 BC End WLTCD, size 10
475 BC Cop's Observatory, Sanitation, WLTCD, size 10
400 BC End WLTCD, size 12
250 BC Gvt changed to Democracy
200 BC Shakes' Theatre
300 AD INC
440 AD Refrigeration
580 AD WLTPD, size 11
760 AD Darwins' Trip
800 AD Automobile
880 AD End WLTPD, size 24
1120 AD Computers
1380 AD Space Flight
1420 AD Apollo (one of many lost turns )
1750 AD Launch
1765 AD Arrival at AC! (edit: turn 215 if I'm not mistaken)

Reading the top of page two of this thread, I believe this map will offer you what you are looking for.

This map has no huts, and I've engineered it so that contact with the other Civs will be sped up. There are a handful of decent starting sites not far away from your settlers.

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

Okay the highlights:

Monarchy 1650 BC
Republic 225 BC
Democracy 1020 AD

Size 8 150 BC
Size 12 50 BC
Size 17 600 AD (out of food)
Size 22 1774 AD

Colossus 1550 BC
Copes 180 AD
Shakes 360 AD
Isaac's 880 AD
Darwin 1600 AD
Apollo 1844 AD

AC 1899

Here is the log:

Tech(hut City
or trade) Imporvement Misc Diplomacy
0 -4000 50 g hut
2 -3900 Found Athens Chariot hut
4 -3800 Archers hut
6 -3700 Chariot hut
7 -3650 Alpha
10 -3500 Map(h)
15 -3250 Settlers, start Colossus Meet Vikes, they ignore my feeble threats
16 -3200 100 g hut
19 -3050 CoL, Writing(h) Meet Mongols, they ignore my feeble threats
20 -3000 Meet Romans, they ignore my feeble threats
21 -2950 Curr(h)
34 -2300 Pottery(t) Meet Americans, get Pot for Map, 50g
37 -2150 Capture barb leader, 150 g
42 -1900 Meet Zulus, get 50g
46 -1700 Monarchy Start rev
47 -1650 Monarchy
48 -1600 Find band of wandering nomads!
49 -1550 Colossus (finally!)
54 -1300 Feudalism(h)
60 -1000 Trade Romans: Masonry for Trade, get 100g; get 50g from Zulu; Vikes Horseback for Writing, get 100g; get 50g from Mongols
61 -975 Library
68 -800 Build hides caravan
70 -750 Cons
74 -650 Hides to Trond, 68g
76 -600 Literacy
77 -575 Beads Caravan
79 -525 Temple
84 -400 Return Settler to city
86 -350 Myst Marketplace Beads to NY, 72g
88 -300 Colossieum
89 -275 Phil, Repub Revolution Coal to NY, 72g
91 -225 Aqueduct Repub
92 -200 WLTCD
94 -150 Size 8
96 -100 Math Silk caravan Mongol Iron for Math, give Repub, Phil, share maps
98 -50 End WLTCD, 12
99 -25 Start wonder
102 40 Astro Vikes, Wheel for Repub
105 100 Capture barb leader, 150g
107 140 Meet Aztecs, get Seafaring for Repub, they demand Phil
108 160 Silk caravan to Tenochtitlan, 164g
109 180 Medicine Copes, start Shakes
115 300 Engineering Ally with Americans against Aztecs for Banking and 250g
118 360 Shakes, sell colossieum
121 420 Sanitation Bank
124 480 Start WLTCD Capture barb leader, 150g
125 500 Sewer
127 540 Univ Harbor
129 580 Gold Caravan, start KRC
130 600 End WLTCD, 17 Vikes destroy Mongols
132 640 ToG Switch to INC
135 700 Pollution
136 720 Econ 2nd poll, only 7 triangles
139 780 Amer request war with Vikes, comply; give San, Univ, share maps, get 25g
141 820 Chem
142 840 Gold caravan to Philly, 336g
144 880 Invention Issac's
146 920 StockEx
148 960 Demo Revolution!
149 980 Univ
151 1020 Demo
152 1040 Food caravan
154 1080 Gunpowder Wine caravan
156 1120 Gold caravan
157 1140 Explosives Americans: Nav for Demo, they demand Inv, request gift, get 50g
158 1160 Food Caravan Pollution
160 1200 Metallurgy Food Caravan Americans demand Iron
161 1220 Americans: Phys for Gun, demand Warrior Code
162 1240 Food Caravan
163 1260 Mag Gold caravan to Boston,201g
164 1280 Silk caravan
166 1320 Elec Food caravan
168 1360 Engineers
169 1380 Refrig
170 1400 Supermarket Amer: Bridge for Econ, Poly for Demo, request gift get 25g
171 1420 Barb uprising on w edge of cont, 11 Elephant, 9 Archers
172 1440 SteamEngine Food caravan Wine to Boston, 160g
173 1460 Silk to Bost, 228g
174 1480 RR
175 1500 Wine caravan Barbs destroy some mines & irrigation
178 1530 Industr Gold caravan
179 1540 Factory
180 1550 Start Darwin
181 1560 Corp
183 1580 Give Amer RR, get 50g, gold caravan to Philly, 116g
184 1590 Electronics
185 1600 Steel, Refining Darwin Wine caravan to NY,117g
187 1620 Hydroplant
188 1630 Comb
189 1640 Silk Caravan
191 1660 Gold Caravan
192 1670 Auto
193 1680 Superhighways
194 1690 Start WLTPD(16) Silk caravan to Wash, 444g
195 1700 Mass Prod Wine caravan
197 1720 Food Caravan
199 1740 Consc Food Caravan Give Amer Cons & Elec, get 50g
200 1750 Gold Caravan to Philly, 326 g
201 1752 Food Caravan
202 1754 Chivalry
203 1756 Food Caravan
205 1760 Leadership Food Caravan
207 1764 Food Caravan
208 1766 Tactics
209 1768 Food Caravan Lots of pollution
211 1772 MassTransit
212 1774 Machine Tools End WLTPD(22)
213 1776 Sell Sewer
214 1778 Sell Aqueduct
215 1780 Miniaturization Food Caravan
216 1782 Vikes declare war
217 1784 Food Caravan
218 1786 Computers
219 1788 Food Caravan Give Romans Gunpowder, get peace
220 1790 Resaerch Lab Give Vikes Metallurgy, get peace
221 1792 Mobile Warfare
222 1794 Food Caravan
224 1798 Robotics Armor
227 1804 Flight Wine caravan to Rome, 217g
228 1806 ManuPlant
229 1808 Food Caravan
230 1810 Radio Food Caravan
231 1812 Food Caravan
232 1814 Food Caravan
233 1816 Food Caravan
234 1818 AdvFlt Wine Caravan
235 1820 Food Caravan
236 1822 Food Caravan
237 1824 Rocketry Food Caravan
238 1826 Start wonder
240 1830 SpaceFlt
243 1836 Plastics Prod at 65
246 1842 AtomicTheory Prod at 75
247 1844 Apollo
248 1846 Component
249 1848 NuclearFission Component
250 1850 Component
251 1851 Component Wine caravan to Tenochtitlan, 262g
252 1852 NuclearPower Component
253 1853 Component Prod at 70
255 1855 Laser Structural Prod at 80
256 1856 Structural
257 1857 Structural
258 1858 Superconductor Structural
259 1859 Structural Ally with Romans against Vikes for 450g
260 1860 SolarPanel
261 1861 Structural
262 1862 Fusion Structural Barb uprising, 25 riflemen, 20 artillery
263 1863 Structural
264 1864 Structural Barbs on 2 squares, destroy mine
266 1866 Stealth Structural
267 1867 Lots of barbs
268 1868 StealthFtr
269 1869 LifeSupport
270 1870 CombinedArms
271 1871 Structural
272 1872 Pollution problems and barbs
274 1874 Recycling StealthBomber
276 1876 Structural
278 1878 Structural
279 1879 Sell ResearchLab
280 1880 Environmentalism Structural
283 1883 Vikes show up, I ask for peace they refuse
284 1884 Habitation LAUNCH! Arrival 1899
286 1886 RecyclingCenter
288 1888 Airport Gonna bomb the Vikes back to the stone age
291 1891 AmphWar StealthBomber
293 1893 StealthBomber
295 1895 StealthBomber
296 1896 Destroy 2 small Vike cities
299 1899 Arrival

Okay let me see how this looks. I had the wonders & important events bolded, I don't think they showed up.

------------------
Will everyone stop bloody quoting everyone else in their signature damnit. - Graag

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

Okay so now the abbreviated version... I wanted to see how many huts I could get and how tough I could make getting Monarchy even while following the regular direct research path to it. The answer is really tough. I popped some huts and got some techs and some units (which made me supreme) and ran around contacting the AI. This was in MGE, but I made the map for crying out loud, and even though I waited a good while, I still had a basic idea of how it was laid out. So there I am trying to trade techs to get an alliance with hostile AIs and I keep running out of techs before I get them up to worshipful. Long story short - by being supreme you really hurt your abiltiy in MGE to get alliances, that in turn allows the AI to attack you without the repurcussion of another AI coming to your aid. I ended up fighting everyone the entire game. I lost track of how may settlers/engineers got killed, but I think it was more than 15. With all of those techs from huts, I didn't get Monarchy until 600bc and Republic in around 1000ad. I lost a couple hundred j/k city defenders to Zulu Battleships. The Zulu's and the Romans ended up as the dominant civs, only the Americans survived at all. The Zulu's had a spy show up on my doorstep while they were building their ship and they demanded 1000g which I gave to them to get a ceasefire and block their spy from getting fusion, they launched a minimal ship the next turn, but without fusion. I launched three turns later and beat them to AC. The Romans were losing cities left and right to the Zulus by this time and couldn't get their ship completed in time...

I joined quite a few wars for gold. I don't usually do this but I was isolated enough that being in a war with the Romans didn't mean much except that they hated me more than usual .

Why did you give up the 1000g instead of just wasting the spy?

------------------
Will everyone stop bloody quoting everyone else in their signature damnit. - Graag

The other thing I did that was interesting, but stupid, was I landed a horse next to a vik settler very early which was also next to Trondheim. They requested to trade for Bronze and I thought, hey! they might just be defended with a warrior. So I traded with them and then crushed them. They never reappeared and that let the Romans expand too much. The hit to my rep probably didn't help me get alliances.

I don't know how you folks are making all these funny faces.

That useless port thing made me mad, that was certainly not my plan. I also thought that with the turn in it the AI would have difficulty getting ships in there - not so! Others have made comments about the open tech path... I am not sure what that is refering to, I didn't change anything about the techs...

Aurelius - you can check out how someone wrote something by acting like you are going to edit their post... it will show you what they really typed, you just can't change it.

Oh, I think the open tech path refers to being able to research any tech given the supporting prerequisite techs....ie you get CoL and CB and Alpha you will always have the choice of Monarchy in your next advance choices. Sometimes it doesn't happen that way.....but I'm just guessing.

Seeing Vet Battleship off the shore of One City:

Hindsight at killing off the Vikings:

UK Government Agents

Sten, thanks for the last scenario
Later

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

Diety 2.42 and 1.07
AC 1827 AD

Monarchy: -3050
Republic: -1050
Democracy: 460

Colossus: -1950
Copes: -175
Shakes: 80
Ike's: 820
Darwin's: 1120
Apollo: 1754

Trade Routes: -675, -500, -400

Trade: -950
Cons: -650
San: 140
Refr: 1120
Auto: 1480
Comp: 1640
SF: 1752

size 12: -350
size 21: 1280

No less than 13 advances came to us in a single turn each, around the discoveries of Automobile and Computers. A unicum, to which the AI tribes contributed by researching Polytheism, Monotheism, Theology and Genetic Engineering, thus giving us a technology bonus. (But not much money in the form of gifts, as we were afraid of getting those horrible techs ).
With the good start, too (early N-Settlers, I love forests ), we could hardly miss a fine landing date.

================================================================
AC: 1476

Monarchy: -3050
Republic: -1450
Democracy: -125

Colossus: -2200
Copernicus: -425
Shakespeare: -1050
Newton: 140
Darwin: 700
Apollo: 1040

Trade routes: -1600, -1400, -1200

Size 12: -900
Size 21: 500
Size 29: 1475

Trade: -2500
Construction: -2800
Sanitation: -400
Refrigeration: 220

Automobile: 540
Computers: 720
Space Flight: 1020
============================================

-4000 Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial, Warrior Code
----- N-Archers(h), put in boat, see the hut-pattern
----- Seven Chimneys founded by Karigan
-3950 N-Settlers(h)
-3850 50(h), Archers(h)
-3750 Alphabet
-3700 N-Horsemen(h), Vikings, Peace (we refuse to trade for Masonry)
-3650 Wheat/r irrigated
-3500 S2 (wheat/r+silk/r)
-3450 50(h)
-3400 Code of Laws, 4 techs->V, no Ally , 100(h)
-3250 N-Archers(h), N-Chariot(h)
-3200 Romans, Peace, 4 techs->R, Ally
-3150 50(h)
-3050 Monarchy, MONARCHY
-3000 50(h), Americans, traded for Writing, 3 techs->Am, no Ally
-2950 N-Archers(h), tarded for Masonry(V)
-2900 S3, Barb Archers
-2850 25(h), Currency(h), Barb Leader (150)
-2800 Construction(h)
-2700 Mongols, Peace, 9 techs->M, no Ally
-2550 Barb Archers
-2500 Mysticism, Trade(h)
-2450 Zulus, traded for Horseback Riding, Peace, 8 techs->Z, no Ally, 50 , Barb Archers
-2400 The Wheel(h)
-2350 S4, 50(h)
-2250 Traded for Map Making(V), 6,7 techs->V,Am, Maps, no Allies
-2200 COLOSSUS, 100(h)
-2150 Engineering(h)
-2100 Library
-2050 6 techs->M, Maps, no Ally
-2000 Marketplace, Aztecs, traded for Pottery, 12 techs->Az,R, Maps, Ally(Az), 50,25
-1950 Barb Archers, 4 techs->Z, Maps, Ally
-1900 Barb Archers
-1850 Barb Leader (150)
-1800 Beads, Literacy, Barb Chariot
-1700 Gold
-1650 di Archers
-1600 Silk, 50(h), Beads to Zimbabwe (56)
-1500 Food
-1450 Philosophy -> The Republic, REPUBLIC, 5 techs->V,Am, Maps, Barb Archers
-1400 Food, We Love , Gold to Zimbabwe (72), 3 techs->R,Az, Maps, 50,25
-1350 S6, 4,3 techs->M,Z, Maps(Z), 25
-1300 S7, Food, Coal mined
-1250 Medicine, We Love ends , Barb Archers
-1200 Barb Leader (150), Silk to Zimbabwe (88)
-1100 Food, Mathematics, Barb Archers
-1050 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE, Astronomy(h)
-1000 S8
-975 Aqueduct, S9, 3 techs->V,Am
-950 S10, 3 techs->R,Az, no gift
-925 S11, Barb Archers
-900 S12, Barb leader (150), 3 techs->M,Z, 150<-Z
-875 Coal, We Love ends
-850 University
-825 University
-750 Banking, Americans take Ulundi
-725 Food, 2 techs->V,Am
-700 2 techs->R,Az,Z, 25,50,50
-675 Bank, Barb Archers
-650 Seafaring
-625 Food, Coal to Tenochtitlan (232)
-600 Iron Working
-575 Beads
-550 Barb Leader (150)
-525 Food
-475 Food, Bridge Building
-450 Food, 3 techs->V,Am, Maps, no Ally
-425 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY, 3,5 techs->R,M, Maps, 50<-R
-400 Sanitation, traded for Invention(Az), 3,5 techs->Az,Z, Maps, 25<-Az
-375 Sewer System, We Love , Beads to Washington (d,182)
-350 Chemistry, S14
-325 Harbor, S15
-300 S16, Barb Horsemen
-275 Economics, S17
-250 Food, We Love ends , Barb Leader (150)
-200 Stock Exchange, Gunpowder, 5 techs->R,M, Maps, 50<-R
-175 3,5 techs->Az,Am, Maps, 200<-Az , Barb Horsemen
-150 Beads, Barb Leader (150), 3,5 techs->Z,V, Maps
-125 Democracy, DEMOCRACY
-100 Food, Famine->S16
-75 Explosives
-50 Engineers->S15, Barb Horsemen
-25 Theory of Gravity
1 Food
20 Metallurgy, 4 techs->R,M, Maps, 50<-R
40 Food, 4 techs->Az,Am, Maps, 150<-Az
60 Navigation, 4,5 techs->Z,V (we won't ask the Zulus for a gift as they have Polytheism!)
80 Food
100 Physics, Beads to Washington (111)
120 Food
140 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE, Magnetism
160 We Love
180 Engineers, Electricity, 4 techs->R,M, Maps, 50<-R
200 S16, 4 techs->Az,Am, Maps, 100<-Az
220 Wine, Refrigeration, We Love ends , traded for Conscription(Z), 3,5 techs->Z,V, Maps, Ally(V), 250<-V
260 Supermarket, Steam Engine
300 Food, Railroad
340 Food, Industrialization
380 Factory, The Corporation, 6,6,6,6,4,4 techs->R,M,Az,Am,Z,V, Maps, 50,-50,-,-,25
400 We Love
420 Food, Refining, S17, Wine to Tenochtitlan (d,244)
440 Barb Elephant, S18
460 Food, Steel, S19, 1 tech->R,V, 50,25
480 S20
500 Coal, Combustion, S21, Barb Musketeers
520 S22
540 Food, Automobile, S23, di N-Chariot, 3,4,4,4,4,3 techs->R,M,Az,Am,Z,V, 50<-R,V
560 Superhighways, S24, Barb Cannon
580 Electronics, S25, Barb Musketeers
600 Mass Production, We Love ends
620 Diplomat, Feudalism, 3 techs->R,M,Az,Am,Z,V, Maps, 50<-R
640 Chivalry
660 Leadership, Barb Leader (150), Coal to New York (d,502)
680 Tactics
700 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Machine Tools, Miniaturization, Barb Elephant, Americans: LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP
720 Coal, Computers, di N-Chariot, Aztecs: MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY
740 Research Lab, Mobile Warfare, Br Barb Musketeers
760 Robotics, Hills into Plains, 8 techs->R,M,Az,Am,Z,V, Maps, 50<-V , Barb Musketeers
780 Offshore Platform, Atomic Theory, Barb Leader (150)
800 Nuclear Fission, Coal to Washington (d,595)
820 Manufacturing Plant, Nuclear Power, sold Sewer System
840 Mass Transit, The Laser, sold Aqueduct
860 Flight
900 Radio, sold Temple
920 6 techs->R,M,Az,Am,Z,V, Maps, 50<-R,V
940 Advanced Flight
980 Rocketry
1020 Spaceflight
1040 APOLLO PROGRAM - 77 shields, no freight, 1034 gold, di N-Horsemen
1060 S#01, Plastics, now 85 shields
1080 S#02
1100 S#03, Superconductor
1120 S#04
1140 S#05, Fusion Power
1160 S#06, 87 shields, 1738 gold
1180 S#07
1200 S#08
1220 S#09, 1 tech->R, 100
1240 S#10
1260 S#11, Hills into Plains
1280 M#01, traded for Communism, Polytheism and Monotheism (M), Americans: UNITED NATIONS
1300 M#02, traded for Genetic Engineering(R), 3 techs->R, Maps, no gift
----- traded for Amphibious Warfare(Z), 3 techs->Z,V, Maps, 200,100
----- traded for Recycling(Az), 3 techs->Az, Maps, worshipful Aztecs cancel alliance
1320 M#03
1340 C#01, 2 techs->Am, traded for Guerilla Warfare and Theology
1360 C#02
1380 S#12, Stealth
1400 S#13
1420 S#14, Environmentalism
1440 S#15, LAUNCH the OSS Karigan (15-1-1-1-1-1)
1441 City Walls, M: S#01
1442 Spy, di N-Archers, N-Trireme, Diplomat
1443 Solar Plant, sold Hydroplant
1444 Airport
1445 Stealth Fighter, M: C#01, Am: SETI PROGRAM, C#01
1446 SAM Missile Battery, Labor Union, Z: C#01
1447 Barracks
1448 Mech.Inf., V: S#01, Am: MICHELANGELO'S CHAPEL
1449 R: C#01, Az: C#01 ....
1451 Am: MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION
1453 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO., Am: J.S. BACH'S CATHEDRAL
1455 Am: STATUE OF LIBERTY
1457 EIFFEL TOWER, Barbs take Trondheim -> Vikings destroyed
----- American Trireme sneak attacks Mech.Inf. , Zulus come to our aid
1458 Traded for Combined Arms (Z), 1 tech->Z, 550
1459 HANGING GARDENS
1460 Zulus liberate Ulundi
1461 LIGHTHOUSE, Americans take Unlundi
1462 Plains into Grassland(s), M: M#01
1463 CURE FOR CANCER, Am: M#01
1464 Aqueduct
1465 Am: HOOVER DAM
1467 GREAT LIBRARY, Az: M#01
1470 ORACLE
1471 Sewer System, We Love
1472 S26, Plains into Grasland(s), Am: M#02
1473 Future Tech #009, S27
1474 S28, 650<-R for War(M), Aztecs declare war
1475 GREAT WALL, S29
1476 The OSS Karigan lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

Score=498 (64%)