I love when they finally get pissed at you and decide they are going to stop you... and can't! Nothing funnier than watching 3 triremes come out of a city to attack you, and they still can't sink your ship.

I once thought it was impossible to have a decent start to a game without the Great Library. Now, I never build it.

The advantage of the Lighthouse, apart from the veteran ships, is the early boost it gives to your exploration and trade. Caravans can be delivered in safety over long distances. I reckon that trading with another continent is about three times faster with the Lighthouse. You have the extra movement, but most important, you don't have to go around all the coasts.

As far as the military is concerned - the civ that rules the waves, rules the world.

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Scouse Git (2)

Are you folks serious about Lighthouse and Triremes! Not being a Multiplayer yet, I rarely build triremes and never build lighthouse--NEVER!

Triremes take too long to build and lighthouse is a Charybdis of early year resources when settlers and more valuable wonders are called for.

Of course, having said such, I suppose a boat load of veteran chariots is something to fear. And first contact and mapmaking is important. Hmmm, and some dips tipping huts and stealing tech....hmmm. Perhaps my sword is dulled on rock-headed AI--but TRIREMES in non-OCC?!

I'm never happy to see a couple catapults land in the woods next to my fortified warriors. I wonder what is in store for me in this MP world? My new version of Civ should be here any day.

Try the Super Ironclad, it's lethal!

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no way!!!!!!i usually haven't got a ship unless i need a transport(and i only need a few or so to attack the coastal cities and then the Ai is already beaten(without the navy they're nothing)...even when they have a strong navy, i'm way ahead on techs and have coastal fortresses, so the only occasion i fear the AI is right at the start of the game and when they discover the ALMIGHTY howitzer!!!

We all have our favourite ways of beating the AI. I use things that float.

You mention the "almighty howitzer". It can shoot twice and ignores city walls. An ironclad ignores walls and can kill several defenders in one turn - and you don't have to wait for robotics either!

Much will depend on the game/map/objectives, but if you exploit a navy you will never fear a howitzer again. You will have crushed the other civs before they even dream of robotics.

Think of an ironclad as a "howie" that floats. Head for Steam Engine!!!

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Howitzers ignore city walls .... and coastal fortress and unit defense. I've rarely seen any unit survive one attack from a vet howie....on the other hand, can't remember how many times I've seen the Super Iron Clad sink to a fortified musketeer behind coastal fortesses.

Still, I read your earlier post and noted the trade aspect of lighthouse...Ming's vet triremes sound pretty invincible. Still....guess I'm going to find out soon.

Smash, in single player, unless I'm on an island or strange peninsula, I don't like having a navy. The AI seems to operate well in the sea and relies on numbers--lots of ships...lots of cruise missles later. But on land, the AI is so bad militarily.... So I tend to ignore the sea in single player.

But in multiplayer, I'm weighing the advantages and disadvantages--quick trade and guerilla warfare?! (hit and run )

AU

The AI is just as bad on water as it is on land. It never tries to escort troop ships from attack by stacking an ironclad with a galleon etc.

Sure - if you come across a coastal fortress, the game is over in that city, until your spies can destroy the defence.

If you are playing a warlike naval game spies are vital. They can find out about the fortress (free) before you waste a ship. It is interesting to note that if you give a spy "her primary target", and pick city walls, you get a special message about how risky sabotage is in a capital and against walls. There is no such warning if you ask the spy to destroy the coastal defence. The fortress is easier to sabotage than walls as she is not caught so often before her finishing her task.

I think the overall message I'm trying to convey is this:

Sea power will allow early exploration, with efficient and safe trading on different continents. Whatever game you're in - you must trade. A strong navy (early on) will mean the AI will never be allowed to sit back and research howies and missiles.

In one really funny game there was a perfectionist civ in demo. This was a bit disappointing for my caravel stuffed with three diplos, as bribing was impossible! Next turn, the barbs appeared on their patch, so the ironclads blasted away the defenders, and the barbs took the city. I bribed it the turn after. I then owned the Pyramids.

Try messing about in boats!

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Scouse Git (2)

Don't know how many there are of you, but I'll assume your wearing your printer's hat.

It's hard to break old habits. I've been playing diety Civ for nearly a year and I only learned of the super city back in December. I've finally tried using a super science city in an ICS game. Seems like a much harder game with more than one city to deal with. Keeping luxuries on zero while letting the one city work is not so easy! I'd read somewhere that the subordinate cities don't build aqueducts....

So now I'll have to try that Super Iron Clad strategy a few times. By the way, I use to do great without trade ! Ignorance was bliss...

But I'm afraid I'm sold on trade now. And last night I was devastated in my ICS game when the AI chose to slay my two camels rather than defend their last city. I still only have one trade route in the super city!

BTW, I tried that barb trick you mentioned in one of my three attempts at the OCC 4 whale comparison game. The Barbs refused to take the city! I was dumbfounded! Of course, I wasn't planning to bribe it cheaply. My Battleship ( ) just wanted to wreak havoc on the Zulu.

AU

Like you, I never realised the power of trade until reading these threads. I think the enduring attraction of CIV 2 is the variety of stratagies that it is possible to use in various circumstances. Every game is different.

p.s. SG (1) is the guy who knows about computers. I am the printer. There are only two of us! Do we seem like more?

Good luck with those ironclads.

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I take it you can't swim off the shore of Liverpool these days...the weather in SF was so good Today that I can imagine the tourist swimming to Alcatraz.

While it's true that AI doesn't use navies too well, the numbers strategy works better at sea than on land. Speaking of Units and not cities, there are no fortresses at sea or roads/railroads to affect movement(thus strategy and tactic)...so I find my sea units to be more vulnerable to the randomness that benefits the numbers strategy. (I've had a lot of ships sunk at sea due to the appearance of AI ships from nowhere!)

The one thing that makes sense in using the lighthouse with triremes is filling it with dips and caravans. Also, Leonardo's might compliment the strategy from a military perspective as ships take so long to build.

Still, unless there are many continents and islands, landpower seems most important and the variation of terrain seems like an ideal situation for the human player.

AU

(Oh, I always thought Liverpool was a coastal city, but someone at a bar told me it was land locked--I could consult a net map but I figure someone at Apolyton would know.... )

It's hard for me to argue with your military assessment of navies and the minimal affect of Leo's concerning navies and I too am a late year military menace to the AI --post robotics. But I am never happy to see the Yellow Flag off the coast of my port cities prior to a gunpowder!

So like you, if I ever get involved with MP, I may need to do some backtracking on the value of navy militarily....

Oh, don't Caravels upgrade to transports? And too bad Leo's can't expire the turn after Automobile....

Trireme to Caravel at Navigation.
Caravel to Galleon at Magnetism.
Galleon to Transport at Industrialisation.

Ironclads to Destroyers at Electricity.
This upgrade is a downgrade because all you vet ironclads become non-vet destroyers.

Nothing upgrades to Frigate, Cruiser or Battleship. Build the last two at a city with a port facility (Amphibious Warfare) so they start out as vets.

When Magnetism is discovered you lose the effect of the Lighthouse, but if in Democracy
happiness is easier, as a galleon away from home does not provoke unhappiness. (The caravel does - it is an offensive unit)

AU - That bar talk about Liverpool - Such Fantasy - now where have I heard those SF initials?????????????????

Keep on sailing.

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I'm sure my friends get tired of hearing about civ ... so finding Apolyton has spared them my monologues

One nice thing about Galleons is they don't make your republic or democracy unhappy and they carry more units and they do upgrade to leo's transports which everyone likes--warbird or trader.

My favorite bars in SF are in the lower Haight. One is a world famous beer pub called Toranado....great beer! The other bar is called Mad Dog in the Fog. This later pub has an English/Irish conglomeration of folks and everyone in the bar loves to watch soccer on the TV's and "take the piss out of" ignorant American's like me. Such fantasy is born in the willing gullible.... And this 'lovable lout' also made some reference to Liverpool as a boil or boyle or something... but I ignored him. I suppose his little lies were his only revenge after succombing to my 'beer chess' tactics.

I use to play that game called Diplomacy and if my memory serves me right, I could take ships out of liverpool...but alas, I leave my house keys behind too often when walking out the front door of my self-locking flat.

Tell me, do you folks really like Boddingtons? Give me a Barely Wine from Belgium or better, California !

DaveV,

Can you really upgrade from Cruiser to Aegis Cruiser with Leo's given the time and avoidance of Automobile? Never thought of that upgrade but like the idea. Don't think it would ever work in MP.

Sivro,

I rarely use Caravels militarily unless I'm desperate, but I can understand you desire to blow up the pathetic catapults... Doesn't make sense that Leo's would upgrade a fighting boat to an attack factor 0 unit, but it does--maybe the historians will help us out on "this reality'.

Au of SF--And Oakland is Landlocked 'less we pull the drawbridge up on the Golden Gate...