1)They just aren't strong enough. vet alpine troop has strength 5 x 350% when behind city walls, that's 17.5. vet Marine is 8 x 50%= 12.

2) I can build a cavalry instead

The times i've tried it by getting it early, you need to have massive amounts of marines, like full transports, so democ is usually out.

I will sometimes build marines to defend cities with ridiculously high production before mech inf.

a)When marines attack from the ocean, will city walls be effective?

b)When marines attack from the ocean, will coastal fortress be effective?

c)When marines attack from the ocean and win, will the city population decrease?

I don't know about amphibious units not reducing population.

ANSWER: YES. Always. And at exactly the 3X factor they should, even at diety levels, though the "trend" of "luck" (eg, the computer resoulution of battle) may be against you in the short term at times.

b)When marines attack from the ocean, will coastal fortress be effective?

ANSWER: NO. Coastal Fortress has NO EFFECT during ANY land unit attack, including Marines attacking from a transport.

c)When marines attack from the ocean and win, will the city population decrease?

ANSWER: NO. Never, if atttacking a unit defending the city. But when no defenders are left, and a marine finally moves into and captures the city, that city's population will be reduced by one.

FURTHER NOTE: By the way, the computer can (and does) attack from the ocean with any of it's land combat units (not just marines). It can TAKE an unoccupied coastal city with any land unit but diplomat, spy, caravan, or freight (Dips and spies will bribe, though). For example, a computer civ's horseman will take an unoccupied one land unit ocean human city directly from a caravel, trireme, galleon, frigate, or transport. The human player is never allowed to do that! The human is forced to use a marine, paratrooper, or helicopter when the circumstances are reversed (or just incite a revolt).

GENERAL COMMENTS ABOUT MARINES:

1. Useful for attacking from transports... do not bother to build non-vet marines unless opponents are way behind in technology. if you build them, make them vets. At least, n don't attack cities with walls unless they are vets. A healthy vet marine has a 50-50 chance of winning agains a non-vet, non-fortified defending rifleman behind city walls.

2. Marines are severely hampered by movement. You need RRs to move and attack on land.

3. Marines generally do not merit production in great numbers... their usefulness is limited to a very limited number of circumstances, assuming you are aggressive and looking for bang for your buck.

4. If you do build marines, build them only with veteran status! That is critical for successful attacking (though usually not for defending... it is less cost-effective to build a bunch of "defensive" marines).

5. A semi-useful strategy is to put marines in a transport and use them to destroy enemy units along a coastline. The marine will recover from damage on subsequent turns (of course), and can attack again later. But this is not cost-effective if the enemy has a strong naval or air element nearby.

"The human player is never allowed to [occupy an empty city from the ocean, using a non-marine unit]! The human is forced to use a marine, paratrooper, or helicopter when the circumstances are reversed (or just incite a revolt)."

This is just plain wrong. I can't count how many times I have done this. A player can use any land-based combat unit to occupy an empty city, even when attacking from a transport.

quote:

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Originally posted by Grishnakh on 12-14-1999 10:06 AM
A settler is a "non-offensive" unit, it has an attack value of zero, maybe that explains the difference?

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#1; I send a transport loaded with diplos or spies, and investigate the likely targets for
invasion, looking for the weakest target. Also taking into consideration the reason I am
taking the city. For example if my goal is to invade the rest of the enemy’s territory I
would pick the city with the best location for that next step. If I determine that the city I
want is to heavily defended and will have to be bribed, then I start amassing the cash.

#2; I then assemble the needed Naval force, usually three or four cruisers and a
battleship.
When the ships are ready, I send a transport of Marines under escort of the Navy to the
target city.

#3; The battleship and cruisers bombard the city, then the Marines attack mopping up the
weaker defenders and taking the city. The Battleship and any weakened cruisers then
moves into the city for repairs, and to attack any force that attempts to retake the city.
The battleship is great against partisans on a hill, for example, or any target that would be
too tough for the Marines. Often the battleship can sit at a choke point, and pick off
enemy troops as the approach the city.

#4; If my plans call for it, the transport and cruiser escort goes back and picks up the
cavalry, armor, howies, and or reinforcements.

In summary, I think the Marines are best used as the “spearhead” of a carefully planned
invasion force, rather than just going in on their own. Their biggest advantage is that they
are strong enough, both on defense and attack, to hold onto whatever they take.
Especially with a battleship or two to back them up.

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 12-14-1999 10:15 AM Whilst on the subject of one square islands -I recently built a trireme in such a place - which promptly sank - presumably as the program had told it was surrounded by water! I play 2.42. Is it a bug? (Sounds horrible when it breaks up and drops to the ocean floor)

Very unfair. Very unfair.

I'll have to look at the cost of a transport (50 shields, I think) plus two or three marines (60 apiece, is it) compared to the cost of, say, one more line of battle ship.

Damage suffered by a marine in mopping up ships caught in port, aircraft, missiles and antique units (after the line of battle ships have taken out the strong defenders)would only put one, relatively inexpensive, unit out of commission for a time and would not even cut down that unit's manoeverability when he does his healing on board the transport travelling to the next assignment.

As the fleet has to travel at the speed of the slowest unit (or wait while Aegis escorts heal) this may be a technique which will keep the whole fleet (representing a lot of shields) moving along faster.