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Author
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Topic: Sea and land warfare Current Date/Time:
March 02, 2000 03:13:21
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Adam Smith
Prince
From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
Registered: b.02-15-99
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posted September 08, 1999 12:55
   
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Darth Krafter:
See this thread on the number of beakers per advance. ../../Forum3/HTML/000329.html
Remember too that there are instances where the excess science above what you need for he next advance will get lost. (Eg, substantial amount of science for this discovery from profitable trade caravans or a super science city.) |
Peter Hennesy
Warlord
From: UK
Registered: May 99
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posted September 08, 1999 14:51
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Personally, one of the things that always struck me about civ2 was that BOTH navies and airforces were chronically underrated. Navies are as most people seem to agree not that much use except the transports. Ok there are some exceptions. The ironclads (it works with frigates too by the way) strategy allows a quick conquest bonus in the early gunpowder age but after that youve got to wait until battleships for the same sort of benefit and its over before its even begun given the build time - airpower makes ships a waste of time. The aegis can survive but its too weak to take on fortified city based riflemen yet alone alpines. Airforces, well.... if your miles ahead perhaps theyre useful but if your that far ahead the enemys not going to be able to threaten you anyway: sit back, laugh at their catapults, and head to AC... bombers of all types are IMHO useless because theyre phenomenally expensive, can only kill one unit per two turns, are too easy for cheap fighters to kill, and are pointless after aegis/sam sites. (And for me, blockings a cheat). Fighters are fun though for their ability to clear away vast numbers of low tech units in a single turn but you try it against an enemy with armor (again, if the enemy's still on horsies you hardly needed them). So as far as I see airpower and seapower only really helps if your miles ahead in the tech race and dont need them anyway. They dont give much of a strategic advanatage in a tight game. Ok, many great empires in history have been land based and not needed navies, but how many modern great powers have gotten by with out air power? It does strike me as an error that having air power doesnt give you that much of an advanatage, and that you can win even a military game without building a single air unit. Land units are simply too powerful... P |
Overdrive
Warlord
From:
Registered: Mar 99
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posted September 10, 1999 17:02
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During the rare times where i play normal civ games, I use navy battlegroups (no carriers, maybe 1, but airbases), to get a hold on some shore-cities. Then I clear any counter-attacks with fighters and bombers. My biggest and fastest invasions took place with Bomber-Heavy airforces and Tank-Heavy groundforces. |
Hodad
Prince
From: Mars
Registered: Sep 1999
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posted September 16, 1999 16:44
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I love big navies! But instead of making Ironclads I make Frigates. In my RULES they expire with Steel (which means free cruisers that will turn into AEGIS Cruisers- my favorite ship.) Trouble is, without a big navy and lots of sea, it's no use having a large land army because (in advanced levels of the game) your 20 transports full of attack units were sunk by one sub that picked them out one by one (destroying BOTH your army and navy.In THE NAVY...! |
Ri-jon Boom!
Warlord
From: Ri-jonia, Jupiter
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted September 17, 1999 01:08
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Hodad-
Just great! Now you got that song stuck in my head! |
Marcel I
Settler
From: Zaandam
Registered: Sep 1999
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posted September 17, 1999 03:18
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I think Hodad’s got a point there.
If you play on a Archipelago map, you do need a navy. Bombers and paratroopers will hardly suffice.
Mostly however, Peter seems to be right.
I personally don’t consider the ‘unattackable’ stack cheating. It is the closest thing to an air support concept. But I think this is better implemented in SMAC, where units close to a city with ‘fighters’ get their air support from that city. That is more realistic than a bomber hovering above a stack of ground units.
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Cargon-Boom
Chieftain
From: Alpha Centauri
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted September 18, 1999 15:54
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I see people are talking about airforce too. Then lets have some discussion on that including land and sea. One idea could be how good are airbases. I think there great for keeping air fighters. What do others think? |
Ri-jon Boom!
Warlord
From: Ri-jonia, Jupiter
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted September 20, 1999 00:40
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Sorry, I don't know much about them because I always conquer the world before I get them. |
My Wife Hates CIV
Emperor
From: Juaa nt vyrr!
Registered: b.02-15-99
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posted September 20, 1999 00:56
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yeah, me too. Thats why I moved off prince level. hehe |
Sieve Too
Prince
From: New Hampshire, USA
Registered: b.02-15-99
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posted September 20, 1999 09:51
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Yeah, who needs a good navy when you're conquering the world with Knights, Dragoons and Diplomats? In conquering games I rarely get past Caravels anyway. Just have your first couple of lead Caravels hold Diplomats. Bribe any AI ships you come across. If they get you first they'll be damaged enough for the rest of your ships (with the Knights) to slip through. Just invade en masse and be prepared to take ship losses like you take other unit losses, i.e. keep building replacements. Once you capture the first few AI coastal cities, you can post picket ships with Diplos so that their navy is not much of a threat anymore.My biggest problem with the Bomber protecting sea units is that there is absolutely no reason why Subs and Nukes shouldn't be able to get in there and blast the stack, air support or no. And speaking of subs, why should prop-planes, Stealth Bombers and AEGIS Cruisers be able to see them at all? |
Seeker
Prince
From: Canada(UWO)
Registered: b.02-15-99
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posted September 21, 1999 15:29
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The vet Ironclad strategy was developed in roughly Jan-March...but it may have been discovered earlier. It arose out of a discussion on ways to conquer quickly without bribery. |
Carolus Rex
Prince
From: Sweden
Registered: b.02-15-99
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posted September 21, 1999 16:37
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Here it is, "Super Ironclads". ../../Forum3/HTML/000200.html?date=06:22 Carolus |
Carolus Rex
Prince
From: Sweden
Registered: b.02-15-99
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posted September 21, 1999 16:56
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About the bomber stack and air superiority in the real world.I don't think the combat engine in Civ2 should be compared to real combat strategies/possibilities. This being said, air superiority isn't always enough to protect ground units. In Vietnam and Afghanistan the USA and the Soviet Union ruled the skies, yet they suffered heavy causalties on the ground and ultimately lost. Carolus |
Cargon-Boom
Chieftain
From: Alpha Centauri
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted September 29, 1999 01:10
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Lets also talk about everyones favorite air, sea, and land unit. Also what unit is the best to use in groups? |
Cargon-Boom
Chieftain
From: Alpha Centauri
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted October 02, 1999 12:38
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Why hasent anyone replied? Just dont want this topic to go down the drain. Sorry Ri-jon for the new topic. |
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