quote: Originally posted by Mark_Everson on 03-19-2001 09:00 PM Well, in that case, there's more fun in store for you! At least I personally like #2 best so far. I'd like to see it with the shield if you're still taking requests

Aha, no problem, I'll do it. Anyways, how about the other team members? No one likes the hammer better?

quote: You are right that the buildings should go in a different thread. The one on map graphics is about 10 threads down from the top since I just bumped it up. That's the right place for buildings.

quote: Originally posted by Richard Bruns on 03-19-2001 11:06 PM Perhaps it would look undisciplined and fierce if it was brandishing the axe or hammer in a two-handed grip.

OK, I may try it, however I think it will be a bit difficult.

quote: I like the unit in the top left of the "Edad Antigua" block on the website.

I mad the axe shorter now, and I've included a long, gaulic type shield. I don't know is this exactly what you had thought of... Perhaps it looks a little confusing...

However, I didn't like very much the unit opse, so I tried a different one too, with the shield on the ground. That way the guy looks less disciplines, very much like he's resting, but still look like a warrior and not like a peasant.

quote: Originally posted by Lord God Jinnai on 03-20-2001 10:02 PM Personally if you take #2, but replace the axe with the hammer from your top row, to me that would look best, but not as a horde pic.

I'm not sure which unit graphic are you referring to. I'm sorry, it's my mistake, 'cause I didn't put a number for each unit since the beginning. Now it should be easier to say which one you like and which one you don't, please take a look again to the link and tell me so.

quote: To me, every time i see him, i think of the "Jolly Green Giant" from the comerical... IMO if you want to make a fierce undisciplined loooking tile, make the person brandishing a weapon in one hand, perhaps a shield in the other or in a first ready to punch, add blue paint and have him with just a loin cloth.

Well, I haven't watched the comercial, but I think I know what you mean. Besides, I've been thinking that, after all, Clash is a whole new game, and you'll be happier to have your own style units, so I tried for a radically different style of unit graphic. Re-reading this thread, I realized that some people (LdiCesare and maybe someone more) were looking for something like a Gaul warrior for the horde unit. Well, look at my #7 and tell me what you think. It may need some refining but I like this new concept, and I thiunk he looks both fierce and undisciplined, just like a Celtic warrior running in a frontal assault against the Roman legions.

I've changed the background color of the page too, so it's more like the map background in the game.

See it all here: www.geocities.com/fiera_com/hordes.html

"2-4 of each randomly generated" I thought the idea was have units distinguished by culture type? I don't think we can have both 4 culture types and four different randomly-chosen figures for each, that would be like 1600 units total if we only have four basic cultural types. We need to define exactly what we want, and what's practical...

BTW Fiera, can you check in the Map Graphics thread? I left you a simple question of some importance, and I don't think you ever saw it...

quote: Originally posted by Lord God Jinnai on 03-21-2001 11:34 AM I like #7...maybe add some blue paint or something...

I added a bit of blue paint in the arms and chest, the result may be somewhat confusing, but I like it anyway.

Check it out: www.geocities.com/fiera_com/hordes.html

quote: Originally posted by Mark_Everson on 03-21-2001 07:41 PM I like #6 and #7 about equally.

As the author , I think that the Gaul warrior has more originality. It would be very fun for me to work among those lines in the future.

quote: BTW Fiera, can you check in the Map Graphics thread? I left you a simple question of some importance, and I don't think you ever saw it...

Oh, sorry! Strangely enough, I had missed your question. I've already replied to it now.

quote: Great Job!

Richard made a good suggestion, about using the base Civ2 iso graphics resolution (64x32) for Clash. And Fiera thinks its a good idea too. Please let us know what You think. (We will probably go ahead and put out demo 5 at the old resolution in any case, because I don't want to swich horses in mid-stream...) Some good points about the idea, and further discussion is below.

I agree that we could use 64x32 as the base resolution for Clash. We were looking into things like representing TF composition on the main map, which is one of the things that lead us to the larger tileset we've had up to now as the default. But although that idea would look cool, for a strategic game it really seems overkill in retrospect.

The change would potentially give us access to a vast amount of art that we could use either as placeholders, or for the real thing. I think many artists would be willing to give us permission to use their work. Mixing and matching units of different styles could certainly become an issue. Fiera, what do you think about that? It still seems on balance worth it.

I've replied to this question in the Maps Graphics thread. I have a Phalanx icon in the same style as my #7 and #8 horde unit.

Are you interested in it or shall we get the size tile agreed before I keep on working in the units?

Like I said, I'm not inclined to switch default resolution till after demo 5 anyway. And we should also wait for at a minimum a few more opinions from team members before making the change.

I think it would be useful for us, if its not too much work for you, to put up against each other the 120-scale units next to similar 64-pixel ones so we can compare what we're losing if we change the default size.

Thanks in Advance!

I really liked the way that the building information was displayed in Tiberian Sun. Each building, when selected, had an isometric box drawn around it that resembled a 3-D cube. Information was displayed on the sides of this cube, so it was easily possible to display three or more power bars in an easy to read fashion. I think that something like this would be more vaersatile than a power circle, and result in less clutter on the map. It also requires a smaller tile size

quote: Originally posted by Mark_Everson on 03-22-2001 01:59 PM Hi Fiera, you can keep playing .

OK. You can now take a look to a Phalanx icon I'm particulary proud of.
www.geocities.com/fiera_com/hordes.html

quote: I think it would be useful for us, if its not too much work for you, to put up against each other the 120-scale units next to similar 64-pixel ones so we can compare what we're losing if we change the default size.

Not too much work at all, I've already been playing with the units and the different tiles myself. I'll work on it, and I'll post a link to the pics on the Map Graphics thread.

quote: Thanks in Advance!

You're welcome! I'm having lots of fun, I'm beginning to feel like a real PC games programmer.

I think for a futuristic game it might be OK, but I find the box really jarring for a mostly-historical game. And it's too utilitarian and ugly even for me even with my limited aesthetic sense. I also think that at a minimum whatever power indicator we have Must be able to be shown for all units/TFs without incredibly screwing up the map. I think a field littered with 20 or so of those things would be extremely ugly... But it is certainly an innovative suggestion, and we can see what others think also.

Fiera:

I'm replying here to your e-mail so that everyone may be able to read it.

I like the idea, at least graphically. It's very original, I hadn't seen such a system anywhere else. There's one thing I don't like so much, since it adds noise or confusion to the icon: the black corners of the status box. Wouldn't it be better if the status box was totally transparent (invisible)?

quote: Originally posted by Mark_Everson on 03-22-2001 07:13 PM I think the phalanx looks cool too!

Great! What does everybody else think?

quote: And I'm looking forward to seeing the comparison samples. Just in case, I actually an enlarged on my request in the other graphics thread, so if you didn't check it out please do so before you work out your sample.

I've posted a link in the other thread that I think you'll find very interesting...

quote: Yes, the next few months will be really fun!

I'm looking forward to it...

As for the status box, I'd have to say no, it doesn't seem like it would be too attractive all over the map, and I really wouldn't want to have to hover over several units just to see it.

So the box is out. What about the epoch marker and two-axis plan for displaying unit power? I think that it has some promise. It shows which power circle changes are due to battle losses and which are due to tech advancement. The bottom bar could also include veteran statis and unit experience as well. I like that a lot more than the power circles, which don't seem to scale up very well.

I definitely prefer the two smaller tile sizes. It seems that there is still a bit too much empty space in the 80x40, but that extra space might be needed by cavalry units. Based on those pictures of infantry units, I actually prefer the smallest size. I don't mind clutter on the screen, and prefer to see as much of the playing area as possible. Panning all over the place annoys me more than clutter. But larger units like cavalry or vehicles might require the medium size.

I used the large tile size from the website, and put two of the opposing units in one tile. It would actually be possible to put four infantry units in one of the big tiles without overlap, since the iso box has a fourth of the area of the large tile.

quote: Originally posted by Richard Bruns on 03-23-2001 09:08 PM I thought we were using alpha channels on the units to show the civ color. I assumed that this would be on the shields in ancient units.

Ah, sorry, OK then. Only thing is that there will be too much color bars around the unit then, I guess...

Anyways, I've converted your pic to Gif format and uploaded it to my Geocities account. A pity that many colors have been lost in the conversion, but I think the pic is clear anyway.

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