The Clash of Civilizations Project

My apologies for all the shouting, but new people to the forum were having trouble finding the basic info on what's going on with the project.

What's going on:

This is a project for a civ-like game (but Not a clone) called The Clash of Civilizations.

Your first stop should be at the Clash Web Site right here at Apolyton. It's Packed with information on where we are right now, and where we're going!

Our Forum for suggestions and working out a design spec is Right Here. Please comment on things you like or don't like. Make alternative suggestions, its an open mike .

Clash Status:

We are hoping to finish up the overall design fairly soon, and are proceeding to coding on areas that are better developed. Our fourth demo to acid-test our game models and interfaces came out quite some time ago. Since then there's been a hiatus in the coding because I developed too much of real life and was our only functional coder for quite some time. However we've made a lot of progress on many game models (Government, Economy etc.) in the meantime.

F_Smith is now organizing the coding (as of 9/00). He is currently working on getting the code into a new more-compartmentalized format (I'm not a pro coder and it shows in the old code, which I did by myself ).

[edited 3/9/01, in bold]
The plan is to continue the demos as soon as possible (by sometime in March at the current rate of progress) using the new code. We are now using a 'radical' programming/design approach where we will try to release new versions frequently in the new year for comment and bug-hunting etc. This approach relies less on design docs, and more on a 'living' evolution of the game design as the coding progresses. (We are still going to code up the designs that exist so far for evaluation.)

While F_Smith is doing the re-factoring, Laurent D. is developing the military model code, and I'm doing the same for economy and tech.

The game as it stands is not as far along as we'd like it to be! We all want something Really playable. But as the coding progresses, there are a lot of ways that good thoughts in the design area can still seriously influence the final game at this point. So we want to hear from you!

This is your chance to comment on a civ-like game to someone who will Really Listen. To get your comments in the right places, so they can have the maximum effect, please look over the model on the appropriate web page area First, and post in the most recent thread.

On another subject, we could still use a military type to take over the mil model. If you're interested, let me know!

Note: For people who aren't familiar with Apolyton, there are a Lot of good ideas for changes in civ-like games in the other forums. If you look at posts for the last year you'll see a Lot of interesting suggestions.

Mark Everson

Clash of Civilizations Highlights

- Type of game: Whole-History 4x TBS
- Play types: Single & Multi- Player
- Design goals: Killer AI, Reduced Micromanagement, More Realistic Feel
- Distribution type: Shareware
- Current version: Demo 4, 5 out soon
- Scheduled release date: 2002
- Platforms: All! (Anything that will run Java)
- Programming language: Java
- Need of help?: Yes, Clash can abuse your help in virtually any area
- Graphics: 8-bit
- Map: Isometric / Cylindrical
- Tiles: Square
- Unique/generic civs: Generic, but more nuanced than usual
- Victory types: Varies (player set)
- Number of max civs: Unlimited (player set)
- Simultaneous moves: Yes
- Customizable units: Yes
- Borders: Yes
- Tile improvement model: Similar to public works in CTP
- Stacks/tactical combat: Stacks / automatic tactical combat that takes into account player orders
- Goverments: Detailed Government model including internal power struggles

- Contact: Mark Everson -- markeverson@mediaone.net
- Web page: www.clash.apolyton.net/frame
- Discussion: Clash of Civilizations forum on Apolyton

What happended with the new graphics mark? I remember calling your game ugly, in a humorous kinda way, but it look real cool otherwise. But what happened with the new graphics that were on their way?

that civ3 be basically a combination of civ2, Age of Empires, and Simcity3000 (but not too much simcity3000).

It would be cool to start with your town center as the beginning of your civilization. Unlike AoE a town center would have a governoring radius and that would be each individual city (so you can name them, and with tech advances that radius may increase) and you build improvements like AoE but in a city like Civ2 (and as time goes on like simcity3000).

Resources would be gathered the same as AoE but you can also irrigate and mine and some special resources are around. And they would be expendable unlike civ (but you should be able to trade for resources too)

When you take an enemy city or you start a new one you can leave it to an automated governor (or like the Romans did annex a city or ally with it and give it ultimatums etc). The governor will follow a list of preset city designs with a priority of what to build first, ordered by you.

City improvement will be varied like civ2 but takes time to build like AoE and there will be workers like AoE.

The types of city design (city layouts) options will increase with technologies (your capital city will be on the list, remember Roman cities tried to be modeled on Rome). The governor could have some AI like whether he spends a lot, or is corrupt, etc.

Then you could zoom to a strategic map. So you can see the whole world (which you can't in AoE). At this level you see the city with a city icon (like civ2) or borders like they have been proposing.

as for war etc.

You build an army out of units you can view at a tactical level (like AoE). The army would be led by a leader unit and based on some preset battle formations that increase as you advance (legion, phalanx, etc but with a customizable feature you can make your own).

If you feel a little controlling go down to the tactical and fight like AoE or leave it to your general who will fight based on the formation and will have an AI disposition (for aggressiveness etc but you can also train them to be better)

At the strategic level you would see army icons (like a flag with a number or something else you can draw on a *.bmp)
The computer can calculate based on averages what the strength of your army is so you can wage war at a strategic level (if you don't want to see the tactical fight).

This could progress through the ages but I think an option of how many ages you really want to go through would be nice. This general idea plus a lot of the ideas going around like:

a lot of civs at one time

the ability to govern from city to regional levels which would work in my idea once you leave the city-state and set autogovernors and rule nationally

new techs

seeing wonders and city improvements so you can attack them

and cultural specific look for some cities, units

and a lot more. Yeah it would be a long drawn out game, but this would be my one big wish!

We have a good chunk of your wish list covered. If you set the box at the top of the main forum screen to 'show all topics' you will be able to see the threads with the main game models and discussion about them.

I need more random unexpectedness!

One nations calvary might have been better...

done: never

a real game that's playable and entertaining, but perhaps not complete by professional standards... Maybe October.

Well, of course there's been a lot of changes... but if what you're asking is in general have most of the models been radically simplified, then the answer is no.

F_Smith is now organizing the coding (as of 9/00). He is currently working on getting the code into a new more-compartmentalized format (I'm not a pro coder and it shows in the old code, which I did by myself ).

The plan is to continue the demos as soon as possible (by Xmas 2000 or so) using the new code. We are using a 'radical' programming/design approach where we will try to release new versions frequently in the new year for comment and bug-hunting etc. This approach relies less on design docs, and more on a 'living' evolution of the game design as the coding progresses. (We are still going to code up the designs that exist so far for evaluation.)

While F_Smith is doing the re-factoring, Robin and Bernd are working on multiplayer support, and puree is working on the map code.

Demo soon, although not a very exciting one yet... The new architecture is taking longer to get going than anticipated due to excesses of real life .

A more exciting demo that will run from a browser or locally should be ready by maybe the end of Jan.

Yes, that WAS a sticky thread, but with the recent malady that ACS has undergone, it has lost it's sticky status and has sunk in it's proper position. I hope that everything is ok with the Clash Team's accounts (alot of accounts in Apolyton were messed up).

This brings back the issue if we have a backup of some sort, of the most important threads for the development of Clash. Mark?

We have on my part only auto-caching that IE does. And I save most of my posts also. Many of us do things that way, and among the group we have always been able to recover a lost thread. Markos also backs up the forums every month or so IIRC.