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"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"YOU MAY NOT BE INTERESTED IN WAR, BUT WAR IS INTERESTED IN YOU."--Leon Trotsky.

• Activision gave the shaft to their playtesters and released a buggy game, took forever to patch it, and has moved onto the sequel before finishing CTP 1.
  
• The interface is a bastard, that is, if you ever played another Civ title, activision thought it would be best to change everything for the worst. Moves that used to require 1 click now require about 3-5
  
• The AI is Dumb, and not just slightly impaired, but real stupid.
  
• There is no diplomacy, only war and have not discovered thee yet.
  
• The art is uh, different, and the more I think about it the more I hate the polished look of many the units, they look as if they have been covered with chrome, and the movement gets on my flipping nerves
  
• The pathing is awful, and why not? Everybody wants their units walking over mountains and have it so the unit cannot be stopped once a mistaken click is made. Of course activision assumes that a player will always move a unit if he or she clicks on it.
  

Play it on a friend's computer and see what you think. And try to find it cheap somewhere.

And DarthVeda will go away when things pick up in the Civ3 forum.

Either that or they're both the same person. Either way, just ignore him.

My gripes with AH and Veda are that they are no more than a couple of trolls screaming "CTP stinks!" every chance they get. No constructive criticism, no "I don't like this feature", just whine and complain and try to start flame wars.

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 05-15-2000 08:46 PM Pay no attention to little dave. he's like the person who buys a dud car and thinks he has to keep driving it to get his money's worth.

Have you even read anything else I've posted? Do you even know when the last time I played CTP was, oh all-knowing Horse?

And are you truly so mentally handicapped you don't even realize when you've made a feeble attempt to start a flame war? I think not. Stoop to my level? You only wish you could reach such heights!

If you have nothing better to do that post "CTP stinks" do it somewhere else. In another thread that was over 100 posts long you made exactly 3 posts stating in specific what you didn't like about CTP. When other posters attempted to address these issues you went back to flaming.

That coupled with your little barb at the end of your "Are CTP players younger" thread has left you with no credibility whatsoever.

So I say, flame on, Sir Gadfly, and don't whine when you have received the full measure of what you have asked for.
Sincerly,

But I have had enough of certain pinheads performing their visceral mantra as if it means something. Either add something useful to the thread or prepare to get flamed. (Not directed at you, Steven)

When I first started to play CTP I found many things annoying (unit movement, for one) beside my shallow learning curve with new games and their cryptic interfaces...I learned about the Apolyton site and stepped up to the kool freshness of mods (huzza)...later I found Deiter's way-out civilogue on slavery and deity domination, and all the other forum brigades here abouts.

CTP is in many ways a better game because of all the inputs it has received...it has been fortuitous, imo, that Activision lamed CTP to market...expectations were high and the tar baby caught us all, the hugh and tumult has made for at least more interesting forums...

hell, (bad word) even the long-standing shriekers are still shuffling about, posting their phlegm (apparently imflammible to some)

this is just another fine mess...no, really

quote: Originally posted by Dani on 05-20-2000 09:02 PM CTP is the best Computer Game I ever played.

(a Mac user - poor schmuck doesn't get to play many games)

1. You can stack units together to make it a more powerful combo. This means that there is no more "Get best guy first and win" thing.

2. At last! a Civ game which lets you go in space! (I don't know for Civ1 ) When I was playing Civ2, I always wanted to continue and go colonize other planets or at LEAST go in space which CTP did (not for colonizing other planets ).

3. Subversive units! In Civ2, the game was all about getting the best military units. But now, some players can do much more damage with those stealthy slavers getting to all your citizens or those infectors, corporate branches or all those cool guys. It takes the game to a new level with rewards well someone who uses them.

4. Trading! I prefer by far the trading system of CTP. You can understand it much better and you don't have to write down which city the trade caravan I built 30 turns before had to go!

5. It's buggy! ... ... ... ... never mind that one .

But of course, every game has a downfall (or LOTS of downfalls ):

1. It's BUGGY as hell! nothing pisses me more than playing a 5 hours game with 30 civs and me having the best citys by far cause of my slaving skillz and then BAM! game shuts down!

2. I don't find the water units "specialized" enought. I "think" I remember in Civ2 about 5 sorts of ships, each specialized for a specific task.

3. My friend once lost 3/4 of his new air fighter (unit you have in about mid-game to late-game) to a legion (VERY early-game)

4. Interface! Almost forgot about this one. Interface in Civ2 was MUCH better, you could see everything you needed in one window instead of 5 windows!

quote: Originally posted by Big Dave on 05-16-2000 01:25 PM ....I encourage people to not buy CTP2 until it's been out for 6 months and we can all see if Activision is going to correct their previous mistakes or just try to soak us for more cash

Slight problem with this though - if nobody buys it, then we won't know if it's any good or not. We only know the limitations of CtP through the vast quantities of time invested by people playing it. Equally, this has led to the development of Mod's to improve and fix things.

OK, I agree that the initial release version could have been better, but I think that it's a great addition to the Civ family (even if it is a bit like the uncle that people don't mention! ) and some things were definite improvements over CivII (as someone mentioned earlier, caravans were an ENORMOUS pain in CivII!).

I will probably buy CtPII when it comes out (if I have any spare time to play, unlike at the moment!)

Dan

quote: Originally posted by DanMc on 05-28-2000 11:55 AM Slight problem with this though - if nobody buys it, then we won't know if it's any good or not. We only know the limitations of CtP through the vast quantities of time invested by people playing it. Equally, this has led to the development of Mod's to improve and fix things. OK, I agree that the initial release version could have been better, but I think that it's a great addition to the Civ family (even if it is a bit like the uncle that people don't mention! ) and some things were definite improvements over CivII (as someone mentioned earlier, caravans were an ENORMOUS pain in CivII!). I will probably buy CtPII when it comes out (if I have any spare time to play, unlike at the moment!) Dan

Dan,

It's not the original release I'm complaining about. They didn't finish the game. I expect the initial release of any software to be, well, quirky at best and buggy at worst.

With CTP1 you've got to have the 1.21 HACK, the Apolyton Pack (or at the very least CD's mod) or WesW's Med Mod, AND ModPicker, a VBA program written by yet another player.

Now I really hate being on the same side of an issue with anyone who acts like a horses backside, but the above listed facts have really ticked me off.

quote: Originally posted by Big Dave on 05-29-2000 01:31 PM Now I really hate being on the same side of an issue with anyone who acts like a horses backside, but the above listed facts have really ticked me off. Big Dave

You've made a good start but sooner or later you're going to have to admit that your attacks on me have always been hypocritical.

I make a general comment and you claim that it's aimed at you? Don't you feel self-important? I'm not hypocritical. Unlike you, I state what my complaints are, not just play the same line over and over again like a broken record. Also unlike you, my mind is open, not just my mouth.