Apolyton Pack 1.0

---CD's Mod and CD Mod Graphics (including the updated versions)
---PowerSLICS (although modified to correct spelling and grammer)
---Harlan's Graphics Mod
---An Earth map - but not with assigned placement (for those of us with our own civs)
---True Terrains 3.0
---The 1.21 Hack

I then suggest that the new version be an advanced player's add-on consisting of:

---Medieval Mod
---Modern Mod
---Nordicus' Trade Goods, including TP's new values
---Maybe a few new governments
---Awesome AIPs

I would hate to see WesW's mods not included, as I have seen no one that dislikes the Medieval one at least.

Just for the record, if when you say TP's new Trade Goods values you are refering to me, TP and I, Timothy Pintello, are two different people. TP is the awesome creator of PowerSlics, and I am just somebody who stumbled onto a way to add production, food, and additional terrain gold, which is different from trade gold, to a particular trade good.

Pintello -- Sorry! What are the odds....

Mark G. -- I just listed what's in the Pack presently, as someone might think that something should be added or subtracted from it. Also, to remind ME what's in it. Is it possible to add the 1.21 Hack to the Pack?

I'll reiterate my recommendations for the thread here- AAips and a terrain mod.

I think the AAips are a big improvement overall to the game, and the default terrain values are ridiculous, imo.

Btw, I created a web site for myself yesterday. There's not really anything in it, yet. When I get the Modern mod beta-edition ready, I will post it there, so people can get it for themselves.

I also plan to put combined versions of my Med mods and the Pack there, so people can have one-step installations. Same with the Modern mod.

Eventually, I hope to have all the readmes posted as well, hopefully in their "Word" form.

Some of the emails I have been getting lately have really pointed out to me how difficult it is for computer novices to use my mods sometimes, so hopefully this site will allow me to simplify things.
It will make it easier to get things to Apolyton, as Mark knows from the Med mod Update.

Maps:
To use the additional goods in pre-made maps, the goods will have to be put down when the map is created. (I haven't tried doing this yet with Nordicus' new goods so I am assuming it will work.) If the goods are put in the base pack, it will be okay. If the goods are put in an addon, you will not be able to use them with any pre-made maps. Also, in addition to the existing maps, I would like to add a European and USA. I can add others (English, Australian, etc) if anybody is interested. You will have to let me know what you want and the setup (ie., # Civs & use of start locs).

Morgoth,
What error, exactly, are you getting or what is happening & how far into the game?

Addon Packs:
Since you can already add each of the addon items one-by-one, I am assuming you are talking about creating an addon pack which already has all the mods in it and ready to go. (One install does them all.) Is this correct?

I guess I am the loner here. I think the new stuff should be part of the new pack. It doesn't make much since to have an Apolyton Pack 2.0 that doesn't have any new mods in it. If a person only wants to add new terrain, they can just add it to the AP v.1. If they just want the AAIP's, they can add it to the AP v.1. The object of the pack is to take the best of the best, put it all together, make it work and just have one install for all of it. Is it not? To me, Wes' stuff should be the backbone for the 2.0 version like CD's was to the 1.0 version.

Just expressing my 2 cents worth. I will go with what everybody deems the best way. I would suggest you call it the SuperCombo AP v1.0 addon (or something like that) since it will not be an AP v2 product.

I have gotten letters from people who downloaded and installed all three versions of the Aips, one after another, and wondered why the game crashed afterward. Or people don't fully understand the scenario setup, which I can sympathize with. And then, of course, the mod-maker can put out something with bugs it. I think all of us have done that at one time or another.

1)I look at it like the Pack should be a solid, beginners-level mod for users; beginners as far as understanding the file system in CtP. We need to keep the one-step, automatic install that it currently has.
2)It should include a copy of the original aidata folder, like the AAips do, in case people want to go back for some reason.
3)I think the individual mods should each pertain to different areas, so people won't be wondering which mod supercedes which. (I'm afraid a lot of people don't read the readmes like they should to start with.)
This would leave my Med mod out, but that may be alright, since I know some users prefer the original setup in some areas. If they are interested in something beyond the Pack, it will be hard for them to miss my stuff.

It would really ease installation if the Advanced Pack contained all of this stuff. I myself, although probably no longer a novice, am certainly not a programming expert! As an example, I am finding it impossible at present to merge Nordicus' Goods to the Medieval Mod.

Those 2 mods make it easier to grow and conduct research. This gives the humans more of an advantage against the AIs in single player mode (which kind of defeats the purpose of the Awesome AIPs mod).

I must admit I have not messed much with Nordicus' new trade goods. For anybody that has, I have a question. If you put less goods on a map, does it still increase the ease in winning a game? I know Nordicus tends to put more goods in than I do. When I get a little more time I will check this out.

For the SLIC, I think the Guarrisons and their autoupgrade ability should be added. Possibly the Gorilla and/or 2 new wonders. Any thoughts on this from anybody?

------------------
Don, Apolyton Junkie

PChang56 mentioned that Nordicus's Trade Goods Mod and Med Mod makes it easier to win games against the AI. My experience in this has been slightly different. Med Mod seems to work in conjunction with Awesome AIPs to make the game harder. However, when you install Nordicus's Trade Goods Mod, you install a different Terrain.txt file that is based on the one that came with CTP. That is why the game appears to get easier. You are basically undoing the things that worked together to produce a more difficult game.

You are effectively over-writing most of the Terrain changes that work together in Med Mod with the Awesome AIPs to make the game more difficult. Second, Nordicus's Trade Goods Mod overwrites the changes CD made in his Mod that reduced the gold available in the game. This results in higher amounts of gold to work with than the original Apolyton Pak has in it.

That is why the Poll that WesW is running about what the values of trade goods should be is so important. It will result in reducing the effects of adding more gold, while at the same time giving some additional food and production for the AI and the humans to work with. This will enable not just you, but the AI to grow better. Additional production should also make the AI more difficult to fight because production has always been one of its weaknesses.

AIPs helped this in some regard, and I think adding a little extra production in the form of Terrain Resources will help even more. I have added Production to the Trade Goods in some games I have been experimenting with and the result has been that the AI seems to be building more military units and thus using them. Also, since I have added the Production to bonus to certain trade goods, the AI has been more willing to start wars with me and even has launched its initial attacks with stacks of 7 to 9 units. This in my experience is quite different from its previous behavior. I think this is a result of the AI having more production to work with. The added Production bonuses to trade goods is what is doing this. With that in mind, we may want to consider putting more production bonuses and possibly food bonuses on trade goods while not doing much with gold bonuses. Though, I don't think gold bonuses on trade goods translate into trade bonuses. I have not looked into this extensively yet, I haven't had the time, but it seems that the trade gold a good gets is related to the gold value in the Goods.txt and has nothing to do with the underlying gold value of the given terrain.

Well, I have gotten a bit off topic here, sorry, but what is done is done.

Also, I think that Apolyton needs to have a big, eye-catching advertisement (or something) that SCREAMS to us newbies that the pack is THE way to play CTP at its best. I think about those games I played without the pack because I really didn't know what (of all the available downloads) I should try, so I just opted for some maps at first. But then again, I may be slower than the average Apolyton user. Well, maybe there would be a way to at least flag the pack as something special.

I am still learning a lot about scenarios, but there are apparently some good mods that are just too complicated, won't work within the pack structure, or conflict with other mods. Unfortunately, these types of conflicts or problems will (apparently) exist because of the way Activision has coded the portions game's program. If I understand correctly, these codes are "hard," meaning we have to live with the way it is. If that's the case, these mods will probably require a little extra effort to run. I don't see the logic of including these types of mods in the pack at all. Rather, they can be downloaded as individual mods and installed by the user. It may mean that us users need to spend the extra 10-20 minutes reading and understanding the mod's readme file(s), but that's not much when you are then going to spend 30-60 hours playing the game.