That would be tough - I don't think the AI is up to Hannibal's long 20 year campaign of burning, city taking, and roman thumping. Conversly, I can't imagine the computer coming up with Scipio's stratagy of attacking Hannibal where he wasn't (i.e. Spain and Carthage).

Besides which, the Elepants were a bit of a dud. After working so hard to get them over the Alps, 36 of the 37 died in the first battle with the Romans. About all Elephants are good for is scaring the Gauls (and horses).

Still, it would be great if someone could built the three Punic Wars into three scenearios. I'd be the first to download it.

Markos has been looking into the problem for a month and has yet to get back
to me yet. This will be fine, all I need is where to get your file. Since
you said it's 5.6 megs big I hope you can post it somewhere and I can ddl it
since my email is limited. If not I can look for another email site. Thanks

quote: Originally posted by Hannibal Ad Portas on 02-26-2001 07:28 AM Ok, ill fall for it, what ideas do you have as regards a Punic wars scn,are you willing to collaborate on a project,as you may guess its a soft sport with me! But to do it right will require that we want the same thing from the scn or w we be going of in differnt directions.

I only really just started to think about what to do with regards to Hannibal and co. I made a scenario along the same lines for Age of Kings, but I really just wanted to use Harlan's elephant sprite to good use, and make a Samurai-type scenario in which you get to kick Roman butt around Northern Italy
I am actually not too sure about the historical background, only that 37 elephants were taken over the Alps, and the Carthaginian force won at Cannae, a river somewhere and a lake further south somewhere . However, I would be willing to jointly make a scenario based on the Punic wars and make it maybe 1/4-decent

I'm not sure, but hexagonia uses www.mydocsonline.com and that allows 14 megs to registered users, perhaps you could put the mod there?
Also, could you send me the readme please? and one other thing that bugs me - how do you use the Villages from the Samurai scenario ???

France should be a big barbarian region. Dunno if you could hide a couple of barbarian towns there, but this should be a major anoyance for him. Also, the Rhone river crossing was a bit of a problem, as the barbarians on the other side attempted to deny him passage. He ended up sending his heavies around to pounce on their rear.

The Alps crossing would be tricky - you would almost need to do some slic code for this. His big rush was to get over the Alps before winter, and that almost didn't happen. I don't know much about the capabilities of scernarios, but if you could do monthly turns, that would be cool, especially if he had to rush to get over the alps, and he lost more and more troops the longer he delayed. You might even make a maze of routes for him to fuddle over, since he had to work at finding a path. Also, he lost about 1/3 of his army (20,000?) in the crossing.

In Italy, he should get the chance to try to recooporate before the Romans fall on him. I might suggest that you make ALL the roman units half-strenght, since they were run by pairs (how stupid) of consoles. One day, guy A got to run the army. The next day, it was guy B. This would allow him to win most open field battles.

Two things that would give it the correct flavor - Rome should be walled and heavily fortified. And it would be cool if you could have a stack that followed Hannibal around and attacked only citys (not units). This would simulate "The Delayer" (Fabious), who would not attack Hannibal but would nullify his gains.

Thats about all I can say in the short term. Hope it helps.

Looks like yove been reading your Livy recently.

My prefrence at the moment is a scn that that runs through a time period
of 264BC (opening rounds in scicily +the largest navel battle in history
at Econmus)through to the gallic invasion of italy,roman expansion
along the adriatic,the conquest of southern spain by the barcids(Hamilcar
farther of hannibal and his 2 brothers)the epic years of the hannibal
ending with the destruction of carthage in 149BC.Also in 149 rome had
effectivly removed greece as a power in in the medd.So historicaly
speaking there was a lot going on,which would provide lots of both
specific and random events to encorporate into the game,exaample
event specific to greece would be the adoption of the shield to cavaly
who up to c270bc didnt use them.this would give a better defense
stated cavalry unt.The list is endless and all you have to do is to read
a few books as its all happend already.Id like to keep slc as alast resort
to workaround any problems that cant be solved in any other way,no offense
to slcers intended,as its in the back of my mind that the scn will
possibly be playable from not only the main powers of the day but all
the smaller wannabes so speed isues allowing it could have 18 or so
players.Now as to if its going to be one big thing or a series of
modules each with their own set of vitory conditions that will allow
you start next mod from either a strong or weaker position depending on
how you deed in previose module,their are advantages to each method and
i need to think about it some yet.I take you point of losses due to
terrain/weather and see my thread for where im going with that issue.
A note on Rome /Roman expansion to super power is best described as
opurtunist meddlying rather than a result of grand staegy of lets
take over the world, its consuls used the states forces to pursue the
political objectives of the faction they belong to, so this was why they
had difficalty co operating and thus if both were present would comand
on alternate days,their commanders were required to competent and
thats all usually they need to be as its their tactical methods that
won their strategic objectives.

However when faced by hannibal competece was not nearly good enough.

so how do i best simulate a generals effect at tactical level/operational
level (grand stategy is what we do). Currently im thinking that you will
follow the carrer of a general through his start as competant rising
to legendary figure of history, its not just a matter of giving him
better stats, he should allow you the player to acomplish things with
his prescence that you cannot achieve otherwise.My minds going
in 6 differnt directions at once at the moment as this modeing thing
really got me going. All ideas, thoughts,gratfully accepted.
Nick Spencer AKA Hannibal Ad Portas
spennick@aol.com

http://www.mydocsonline.com/

Pass word sparta
Login as spennick

You may want to consider changing the scale of the map to force attention to specific details. Sicily is dinky on a world map (does it even show up?) but it was critical to the med in the First Punic War. Further, there was a lot of manovering going on. Ideally, Hamilcar needs to be able to use all sorts of gile and trickyness to run a partisan war against the growing Roman forces.

You might scale the map so that Rome is on the North side, and Carthage on the south side, with just enough of them so that each side has a huge base city (for production). Sicily should dark territory. Randomness would even make it better. This way, the two forces would have room to manover across the rocky island.

Good luck on this. Now I might consider doing it (oh boy, another hobby).

I'm just checking out Hannibal's scenario, so I'm off to play ctp2 now...

Pick up any book on Alex and take a gander at it. Man, it will send chills down your spine.

Oh, and if you like good movies and don't mind subtitles, check out "The Emperor and the Assassin" (at blockbuster). Its a look at the first Emperor to unify China. The battle scenes are amazing - they even show Chinese chariots. And the sieges - wow. Better yet, get ready for a story that has some neat twists!

Been toying with your idea that the romans were reluctant to bring
hannibal to battle, the best solution i have so far is to change
the ai force matching to a higher number than before, this would make it
a war of manuver rather than the present aggressive combat orientated ai
than im currently using,sicily on the other hand is going to be from east
to west north to south from coast to coast 6 terrain tiles at their
maximums.This gives sufficient room for manuver between Syracruse in the
eastern province and lilybeum in the west controlled by carthage.Ive
already implemented the new trade goods Gold/silver/Tin/Wheat/Grain
and so on, so sicily will be important as a grain producer as well as
its position that acts as a giant choke point between n africa
and southern italy.

For trickines/traps/strategems see my post about city defense you will
see their how im getting on with my generals special abilitys,and it ties
in nicley with what you want to see happen, remember that this guy the
ai will not use to the extent of its abilitys that you as a player will
so in effect you are already building in a diference of leadership
style and abilty to the game.As his initial combat stats are low he
wont show up as barbarian unless your playing at a really low level.And
you can also make him specific to one country/player personaly i like
the idea of keeping them for the main country to be be played as, you
can then have a new set of abilitys for the 2nd choice country.

Siege of tyre.the only thing ive done so far is to give bombard to a
wider range of units,this means you see a lot of units going up to a city
to conduct range fire,not really a siege but at least their adjacent
and you can either attack out with part of garrison to chop their hit
points down real low before going back inside leaving them looking sad
and bewilderd or use your own missile troops back at them.

Below is part of what Immortal and i are contemplating (taken from an email)

In respect of a punic wars scn at this stage we should
kick a few ideas around, as to scale Spain to greece for east west,north to south
france to top of North afica coastal strip.using my mod as a strarting point the aim
would be to recreate the 3 seperate wars that Carthage and Rome fought. At this
time in history Rome also took out ilyria modern Albania,fought the greeks in s italy
got invaded by celts and a greek guy call phyrus with yes you guessed it some
elephants came over and created hell for a while before going to sicily to spread even
more elephant dropings! So as a side show their would be alot going on around the
main issue between rome/carthage.i prefer to do it a one big event rather than severall
stand alone scns, that said if we do it as a module we can use a larger scale map
as each module would be focused on a smaller actual playing area so a mod of the war
in sicly would end win one side got all the citys, you go to next module with set
a of units to fightwith if you win, set b if you lose get it so far?

So whats your top pick modules or big picture?

Now i hope you will join immortal and myself in this endeavor.
If you are then i will e mail all relevant info as and when and hopefully spread
some of the work your way to.

Any one else reading this is also welcome, doesent matter what skills you have,
its going to get done but if your interisted in the period and youd like to see
something represented get in now.

Nick Spencer AKA Hannibal Ad Portas
spennick@aol.com

IM SPARTICUS, NO IM SPARTICUS,we will cricify him over there,
HES SPARTICUS,HES SPARTICUS