Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site forums as they ran on Ultimate Bulletin Board, 1998–2001. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 2005 site & forums

  Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
  CtP2-Creation
  Sensible tech tree?????

Post New Topic  Post A ReplyPost A Reply In A New Window

profile | register | preferences | faq | search next newest topic | next oldest topic bottom of page
Author
Topic:   Sensible tech tree????? Format for Better Printing
Alpha Wolf
Warlord
Chicago Illinois
Nov 2000
posted December 16, 2000 04:47   Click Here to See the Profile for Alpha WolfClick Here to Email Alpha Wolf  send a private message to Alpha Wolf
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
Has anyone finished a tech tree that makes more sense than the rubbish that came with the game? i know some people were working on it but seemed to be having some problems.

------------------
History is written by the victor.

Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 16, 2000 10:19   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
Ive created one using the minimalist approach. I added 15 new techs (Naval Warfare, Engineering, Art of War, Gothic Architecture, Machine Tools, Chivalry, Sky Scrapers, Napoleonic Warfare, Submarine Warfare, Adv. Weapons Machinery, Submarine Warfare, Anatomy & Physiology, Microbiology, Credit Card, Integrated Circuit)and rearranged many parts of the Tech Tree.

There are a LOT of techs I'd like to have directly represented in the game, but they would serve no purpose other than as "filler" techs --and I wanted to to keep such things at a minimum.

I created the new techs with a couple things in mind: 1)Only create a tech if it gives you something (unit, impovement, etc.) 2)Break up the military eras 3)If neither of the previous two, use the new tech only if necessary to draw together several technologies as prerequisites for another essential technology [this is only necessary because (at least in CTP1) you cannot have more than 2 prereqs per tech].

I didn't put this tech tree together haphazardly either. I did a lot of research and gave it a lot of thought. It's not perfect, but it's a LOT better than the default tech tree.

If you want I can send it to you. If you would like to wait, I could write a synopsis of the reasoning behind my tech tree changes to go along with it. Also keep in mind that I have not modified the Great Library entries yet.

I also added some new units: Trireme, Viking Ship, War Galleon, War Elephant, Warhorse, Ancient Cavalry, Legion, Musketeer, Rifleman, Longbowman, Horse Artillery, Dragoons, Howitzer, and Panzer Army (WWII Tank). I also changed their values extensively.

It's not a polished product, but my wife and I have been enjoying it. We're still playtesting it.
[This message has been edited by Colonel Kraken (edited December 18, 2000).]

Alpha Wolf
Warlord
Chicago Illinois
Nov 2000
posted December 16, 2000 13:06   Click Here to See the Profile for Alpha WolfClick Here to Email Alpha Wolf  send a private message to Alpha Wolf
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
I'd love to see it. Especially if you have a write up on it. Because of all the changes I tend to make, its hard for me to just copy things verbatim, as I tend to lose some of my changes. i have the same theory about advances. If it doesnt directly give me something, it shouldnt be there. In particular, now I need a bridge building/engineering tech since I figured out how easy it is to build roads over beach terrain.

------------------
History is written by the victor.

Shadowstrike
King
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Jul 2000
posted December 17, 2000 19:45   Click Here to See the Profile for ShadowstrikeClick Here to Email Shadowstrike  send a private message to Shadowstrike Visit Shadowstrike's Homepage!
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
This sounds interesting..... I might want to try this someday. But I'm also in the habit of leaving projects everywhere, so I might never be done.....
Big Crunch
Prince
Soon to be known by a Symbol...
Sep 2000
posted December 18, 2000 08:09   Click Here to See the Profile for Big Crunch   send a private message to Big Crunch
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
quote:

this is only necessary because (at least in CTP1) you cannot have more than 2 prereqs per tech.

Can you use more than 2 prerequisite techs for an advance in CtP2? If so whats the limit?

I've meddled with the Advance.txt and the Great Library and it is possible to get it to require more than 2 prerequisites for a single advance. I haven't yet played it so I don't know if its likely to crash, ignore the third tech, etc....

Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 18, 2000 10:22   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
To be honest with you, I didn't even try it. If it is possible to have more than 2 techs as prerequisites, that would be great.

I guess I should have tried it. I just assumed Activision would keep it the same, since it would go against their grain to actually make that kind of change --especially since their tech tree poster shows not more than two prereq's per advance.

I'll try it tonight and let you know.

Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 18, 2000 17:45   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
Yes. It seems that you can, indeed, have more than two prereq's per advance. I only did a simple test by changing one advance's prereq's to 3 and then 4. The scenario loaded fine. I launched the game and checked the Great Library. Sure enough, there they were --the three (and then four) prereq's for the advance.

I have NOT playtested it, though --meaning I have not started playing a game with that change and then research the advance that has been changed.

I am confident, however, seeing how, before, the scenario would not even load in CTP1 if I had more than two prereq's per advance.

If it's true, this changes things. I'll have to redo my tech tree again.

Keep checking this post for more as I look into this further.

Thanks for the support.

Alpha Wolf
Warlord
Chicago Illinois
Nov 2000
posted December 19, 2000 12:07   Click Here to See the Profile for Alpha WolfClick Here to Email Alpha Wolf  send a private message to Alpha Wolf
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
Are you adding any new techs or rearranging them more logically?

------------------
History is written by the victor.

Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 19, 2000 20:04   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
I'm doing both.


As far as having more than 2 prereqs . . .

I tried requiring 3 advances for Bronze Working and then played a game up to the point that I discovered Bronze Working. There were no problems. The game did require me to wait until I had ALL three technologies discovered before I could research Bronze Working.

I don't know what the limits are for prerequisites. However, I don't think you would need or want more than 4. In fact, rarely in my new tech tree are there more than 2 prereqs per advance.


[This message has been edited by Colonel Kraken (edited December 20, 2000).]

Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 20, 2000 01:17   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
There have been several people who have e-mailed me concerning my new tech tree. That's fine; I appreciate the interest. But I'll post here when I am finished with it. I am currently refining it.

When certain issues with my e-mail service have been resolved I will be able to e-mail the new tech tree to MarkG for posting. It will be an unfinished product, meaning it will not have a modified Great Library. It will be functional, though.

Hopefully all will be done within a couple of days.

Thank you.

Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 21, 2000 22:43   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
I have finished my modified tech tree and am currently playtesting a game with the modifications. I will hopefully have it available to others to playtest within a couple of days.

I have added 15 or so new advances, re-arranged many parts of the old tech tree to make it more logical, added 20 new units and changed the graphics on a couple of the old ones, added 4 or 5 new wonders, and added 2 new city improvements.

I have significantly changed the values of the military units. If more than one unit of the same type (land/sea) appears in relatively the same era, I have attempted to make sure there were pluses and minuses to building that unit versus the other choices. Each era of military units gets progressively stronger such that it is difficult for a previous era unit to defeat a new era unit unless they outnumber the new units by quite a margin.

Thanks for the support.

Alpha Wolf
Warlord
Chicago Illinois
Nov 2000
posted December 21, 2000 22:51   Click Here to See the Profile for Alpha WolfClick Here to Email Alpha Wolf  send a private message to Alpha Wolf
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
wow, sounds like an entire mod

------------------
History is written by the victor.

Matte979
Chieftain
Sweden
Nov 2000
posted December 22, 2000 16:19   Click Here to See the Profile for Matte979Click Here to Email Matte979  send a private message to Matte979
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
Great. The tech tree is one thing i am a bit annoyed with. One comment if I may, I suggest one change that made my games alot better and harder. If you make defensive units cheaper to support and cheaper to build which is logical and some of them are cheaper even know. The effect of lowering the defensive units support cost is two sided. The AI can have more defensive units before reaching the support cost cap. + The AI can use the remaining support cost to build offensive units improving its ability to attack.

This will mean that a war will cost more than keeping the peace.

Could you mail me the finished tech tree when its ready?

Regards
/Mathias

Alpha Wolf
Warlord
Chicago Illinois
Nov 2000
posted December 22, 2000 17:58   Click Here to See the Profile for Alpha WolfClick Here to Email Alpha Wolf  send a private message to Alpha Wolf
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
I second that motion. great idea!!!!!

------------------
History is written by the victor.

Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 24, 2000 01:39   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
You will very simply be able to change the unit cost and support cost of units by opening Units.txt and changing the values for "ShieldCost" and ShieldHunger" respectively. But I believe, for the most part, you will find my unit values at least somewhat appropriate.
Colonel Kraken
Chieftain
Grand Rapids, MI
Nov 2000
posted December 24, 2000 01:47   Click Here to See the Profile for Colonel KrakenClick Here to Email Colonel Kraken  send a private message to Colonel Kraken
Edit/Delete Message    Reply To And Quote This Message
IP: Logged, Admin Access Only
I have sent my modification to MarkG. Hopefully I sent it to the right e-mail address and it made it ok. If so, we should be seeing my mod posted in the downloads section soon. If not, well . . .

I can't stress enough that this mod has not been fully tested for balance and logical progression issues. It is an unfinished work put out by (at least somewhat) popular demand. I ask you to please provide feedback.

It is named v0.9. It does not have a modified Great Library yet. I will attempt to do that when I have the time (because it's going to take quite a while). Also, I will be providing an essay on my reasoning behind the changes (hopefully).

Please read the readme files. They will, I hope, provide valuable information.

Thanks for the support.

Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
> > > CtP2-Creation Forum

next newest topic | next oldest topictop of page

All times are EDT

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic | Top
Post New Topic  Post A ReplyPost A Reply In A New Window
Hop to:

Contact Us
Apolyton Civilization Site

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.44a
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Front Page | Civilization III | Dinosaurs | Civilization II | Call to Power | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Alternative Civs | Misc | Links | About ACS | GameStats
GameLeague | Scenario League | Hodadian Award Central | Civilization Scenario Collection | Spanish CivII Site | Clash of Civs | CtP Maps | Art of War