------------------
WWAAZZAAAAAAAAAAPP!!!!
sam87@quincymail.com
OR!!!
sammyboy7@homestead.com
I think sammyboy has the worst signiature
-the 1212 problem

(PUMPS HANDS IN AIR "RAISE THE ROOF")

DUKE RULES!!!!!

But seriously, folks... Obviously, there is a problem of "Two Cultures" here. We are not here to start a war. So instead of slamming each other, can we make peace and just get along?

For your information, sammyboy, UNIX and compatibles have in fact been around for a lot longer time than either Mac or Windows. Windows95, and even 98, are still essentially just DOS with fancy little windows over it. DOS itself was originally a stripped down UNIX rip-off that our friend Gates bought from some independent hacker for a few thousand dollars.

Further more, most servers on the internet, whether for http, ftp, pop, SNMP, or any other protocol, are still almost exclusivly using UNIX-like OSs because their huge stability advantage over Mac or Windows. Sure, you can get a http server for your Windoze box, but be sure to warn your users beforehand of a lot of downtime.

OK. I think I made my point. If sammyboy doesn't possess the skills for installing and X server, I think he should just return to that Duke of his, or what ever he gets his load of gore and guts from to kill his still quite useless brain cells. Maybe he understands the advantages of an open source app that runs on more than one OS after he has grown a few more years, and learned that the world is not run by Microsoft.

Points:

1. All platforms have their disadvantages and advantages. I, persionally, don't like windows becasue of the reasons that Kumiorava describes (stability). This DOES NOT make Unix or Linix the best platform. I persionally, think Macs are VERY stable (they crash sometimes, but they restart easily and don't have as many interface problems as windows). You can tell that I'm a mac user . That is my opinion. I am entitled to it. You (Kumiorava) are entitled to the opinion that unix/linix is the best. Sammyboy is entitled to the opinion that windows is the best.
   
2. Sammyboy makes a point which Kumiorava misses. What the best platform may be, I can't say. What I can say is that windows is the most used platform. Sad ( ) but true. In such a wildly devleoped game as freeciv, it would be nice if someone ported it.
   
3. If it matters, I agree w/ sammyboy in spirit (because of what I just said above). I also agree that their are many chalanges to porting a program (especially when the program is free), and that this is (if anything) a long term project.
   
4. Kumiorava: (this is the only time I say this) 12 year olds are not dumb. I know that you actually don't say this, but you come very close. Most 12 year olds would understand the problems that would come from porting a game. I can't even figure out how you keep track of items in the sorce code of anything that uses a GUI. I say this knowing some basic C, so you can't tell me that it is easier then it looks . ((When I say most, I do not include or disclude sammyboy. I meant what I said about not taking sides ))
   
5. In case you never figured it out; I also happen to be twelve. This is to clarify my last point only, not so that I can be flamed on the subject.
   
6. A final thing: I'd like to congratulate Thue and Jing for their relative calmness (and hummor) through out this whole thread. I don't know if I would have reacted as well, and it is something you need to be commended for…
   

MARK G/DAN Q: It might be best if this thread was closed, and if a new thread was started (that was a bit more diplomatic.) I think everyone will wake up tomarow and say 'man, I really wish I hadn't posted that!!'.

If Sammyboy's even still observing this thread, I'd just like to say that getting an X server is not a big pain, and it is quite worth it to play a game like FreeCiv. (almost fully customizable, in the spirit of paper and pencil strategy games! :-) )

I apologize. I in now way ment to imply a generalization that all 12-year-olds are stupid. Some might be smarter than me. adaMada proves that point. As for sammyboy, you did get me on that Duke thing , but you should still read your post before pressing that submit button, just as myself and a host of other people. Just take a peak into the OT, and you'll know what I mean. You don't need to be in middle school to post like a moron!

I also agree that choosing an OS is a question of taste, and thus has no point to be fought over. My bad. I played down Windows and Mac by only giving their negative sides, but of course they still have their good aspects. Otherwise they wouldn't be so (damn ) popular, would they? The truth is, that I still have Windows on my HD for gaming pourposes, although I haven't booted it up for quite a while. Linux also has its faults. For example, its incompatible with a lot of the newer hardware, especially USB devices. Blame it on manufacturers who favor commercial OSs . But thanks to the active Linux developement community, new hardware usually gets support within a few weeks or months after release. Even some USB devices should no work with the latest kernel release, 2.2.14.

Now geting back to the actual topic, I must agree with moseslei that getting X server for Windows can't be that much trouble compared to its benefits. And to sammyboy, I suggest that you try out Linux if you feel confident about your computer skills and have couple of gigs of free space still left on you new HD. I imagine you should, since its very hard to clog up a stand-alone PC with the current HD sizes being what they are today. Just defrag your Windows drives and obtain a Linux distro. I recomend Mandrake or SuSE. Both are a breeze to install, even for a newbie. I you can do a Windows installation, you can do either one of those.

And remember that when ever you are using Windows, there is NEVER a moment when you are NOT taking any chances.

(And yes, I'm still going for converts. )

quote: You don't need to be in middle school to post like a moron!

------------------
WWAAZZAAAAAAAAAAPP!!!!
sam87@quincymail.com
OR!!!
sammyboy7@homestead.com

I think sammyboy has the worst signiature
-the 1212 problem
yeah, baby yeah
-sammyboy7

DUKE RULES!!!!!

quote: Originally posted by Jing on 05-10-2000 05:27 PM Please keep in mind that Freeciv is an open source project. Everyone is welcome to contribute, and the game is absolutely free. If you can make the Windows port, go right ahead! I too have friends who can benefit from such a move. [This message has been edited by Jing (edited May 10, 2000).]

This is the real issue here...
The reason there is no native windows version of freeciv is not that we don't _like_ windows... It's that we don't _use_ windows... (Of course - the reason we don't use it might be that we don't like it but that's another matter )

The way opensource works is that somebody who wants/needs a feature in a program adds it...
Since I don't run windows I have no need for a windows version of freeciv and thus I'm a lot less inclined to spend my (free) time coding it... Certainly - when You code something (for fun) You want to use it... You need to use it - if only to test it...

Personally, I don't blame either Kumiorava or sammyboy. I've made many posts that misrepresent what I'm trying to say then this (I one started arguing over a sig which had nothing wrong with it (sorry studlum )).

PS: Is their any windows users intrested in porting it? Or any mac users (that know how)? Of corse the mac users are more important because macs are better, and mac users are smarter...

Still, you win out. Looks like I need to proof read my posts more often .

quote: Originally posted by Kumiorava on 05-13-2000 05:56 PM Huh? Your "know how" had nothing to do with my "know-how". I think that if someone made a proper GUI for civserver, most Windows users would be quite happy - as long as they can get X running, that is. Then they could forget about all that nasty, hard-to-use command line crap, righ right?

Man, your starting to sound like MWHC...

As for the civserver part. Yes, it can be a bit daunting, for the first time. But 'set aifill 14' and 'start' will do nicely thank you. Once you figure out that bit you can simply type 'help' and experiment a bit with the other settings and your ready to go.

------------------
WWAAZZAAAAAAAAAAPP!!!!
sam87@quincymail.com
OR!!!
sammyboy7@homestead.com

I think sammyboy has the worst signiature
-the 1212 problem
yeah, baby yeah
-sammyboy7

DUKE RULES!!!!!

quote: Originally posted by Thue on 05-20-2000 12:33 PM I resent that. Freeciv have enough cool features to compete! Besides, I like to have access to the code.

Not that I'm going back to commercial games myself now but I really miss some things from Alpha Centauri:

1. Social Engineering!
2. Tiles have heights. Allows ridges, craters, volcanos, deep sea valleys, shallows, highlands...
3. Unit workshop.
4. AI handling diplomacy, planetary council.
5. Great story with texts, animations and sounds.

I really loved this game for a while until I wanted to create my own faction and discovered it was not possible because of something known as the "red field limit" (which means that you can only customize 8 variables of a special kind). I could not do anything about it without access to the source code.

If i was a programmer I would implement this stuff in Freeciv right away, but unfortunately my programming knowledge is limited to a 5 week university course in Ada95 (the course is about to end right now and I'm getting the highest grade!), and some home experiments with javascript.
Maybe I will take a year off and take some more programming courses so I can help with freeciv.

quote: Originally posted by Kumiorava on 05-20-2000 04:44 PM Money is not the problem for most of us, I asume. One could get a copy of Windows from somewhere, and a commercial Civ game as well. However, the main point of Freeciv existance isn't so much that it's free, even if the name suggests it, but that the code is open and under constant developement in which anyone can participate. It's truly a game by the players, and even though many of the players don't activly take part in the developement, thay still rather play Freeciv than a commercial game, because they know that they hold the power to change game and help make it a superior product. And the developers, they take plure pleasure out from staring at that code all day, trying to make some little feature work. This might seem strange to somebody not familiar with open source developers, but the fact is that making an OS app or a game is a hobby to most of them. They us it to fight the stress of their daily lives and to get massive ego boosts. There is much more to a game like Freeciv than just pure playing, more than any commercial game could ever possibly offer.

I understand what you mean but i think most windows users are not able to appreciate what open source has to offer. I guess when they look at the source code of freeciv they understand about as much as you understand when you look at the binary of Alpha Centauri. To them open source is actually still closed source. When they want a feature implemented (which they can't implement themselves) they can just as well nag the Firaxis company as the freeciv-dev mailing list. They will probably have more success at Firaxis because it is a company that has commercial motivation to implement the features as opposite to open source programmers who add the features they want most.