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Topic: CONSUMER ACTION: A Declaration of Disapproval, Intend to Return or Refusal to Buy |  |
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yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted January 31, 2001 02:27
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January 30, 2001? Nope. April, 1999. Just take a look at some of these gems. I simply cannot express how much time and money I saved by having learned my lessons about Activision 2 years ago. If you weren't around here back then or didn't buy CtP 1, you can be excused. But to the rest of you: Do you get it yet? Back in the CtP 1 days, I actually got the game as a gift and REFUSED to play it as a kind of (admittedly weak) one-man protest. This time I did even better. I DIDN'T BUY THE GAME OR ASK FOR IT AS A GIFT...LOL  CONSUMER ACTION: A Declaration of Disapproval, Intend to Return or Refusal to Buy
../../forums/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000112-7-000810.html CONSUMER ACTION: A Declaration of Disapproval, Intend to Return or Refusal to Buy II
../../forums/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000112-7-000904.html "Pilot Error": How to make your company look even more lame. Activision Up Close.
../../forums/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000207-7-001160.html ACTIVISION: Treat paying customers like beta-testers, and you are doomed to fail.
../../forums/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000112-7-000796.html
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited January 31, 2001).] |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted January 31, 2001 03:07
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By the way, I actually DID send all those comments to as many places as I could find. Not one response. Not one. So my advice to anybody looking to send complaints this time around:Your strongest hope is suing them for misrepresentation. As has been said, the box promises things (like MP support) but doesn't deliver. Activision should be FORCED to reimburse your money AND pay some punitive damages, since this kind of sleaziness is clearly a habit for them. Similar efforts have failed with Origin, however.  I, however, am blissfully uninvolved this time around having known precisely what would happen. Oddly enough, some other games from Activision are actually quite good. It just must be this CtP crowd that they hired from various back alleys somewhere causing all the problems. Then again, that "official" Activision response pretty much sums up the company, doesn't it? Any "CtPhants" looking to chime in this time? |
Pyaray
Warlord
Garden Grove, CA, USA
Oct 2000
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posted January 31, 2001 03:43
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quote:
Originally posted by yin26 on 01-31-2001 03:07 AM
I, however, am blissfully uninvolved this time around having known precisely what would happen. Oddly enough, some other games from Activision are actually quite good. It just must be this CtP crowd that they hired from various back alleys somewhere causing all the problems.
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"Back alley" eh? Thanks for the constructive comments. Pyaray |
MarkG
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted January 31, 2001 05:23
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ah yin, you're the best civ3 forum moderator we ever had(the fact that you are also the only civ3 forum moderator we ever had is not important), but dont you have something better to do?most of us have moved on: the creation forums are busy, we've got some cool ai/diplo/graphic mods even sprites coming up every day! so please, leave us in our own "misery", we dont need anyone screaming "i told you so"  |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted January 31, 2001 05:26
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Yes, but I told you so! Seriously, it's so funny it a pathetically sad sort of way. And I AM the best Civ3 Forum moderator---EVER! |
MarkG
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted January 31, 2001 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by yin26 on 01-31-2001 03:07 AM
It just must be this CtP crowd that they hired from various back alleys somewhere causing all the problems.
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how obvious it is that you dont know what you're talking about.... |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted January 31, 2001 05:53
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CtP Crowd = The People responsible for putting out CtP2 the way it was. Now c'mon, how can you argue with me on that? They messed up...AGAIN! So tragic. |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted January 31, 2001 05:57
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By the way, if somebody wants to send me a copy of CtP2, I'll gladly download the mods and send some money to Wes if they are any good. But Activision 'aint getting ONE RED CENT! |
TacticalGrace
Chieftain
Cambridge, England
Jan 2001
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posted January 31, 2001 07:54
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It's got a really nice box though |
wittlich
Warlord
Fayetteville, NC, USA
Dec 2000
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posted January 31, 2001 10:03
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Allways the gracefull one, eh TacticalGrace? 
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MarkG
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted January 31, 2001 17:18
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quote:
Originally posted by yin26 on 01-31-2001 05:53 AM
CtP Crowd = The People responsible for putting out CtP2 the way it was.
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you are probably talking about the executive crowd, not the ctp crowd |
Dale
Warlord
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted January 31, 2001 19:16
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Yin, I remember you carrying on over CTP1 way back when. But really, CTP2 IS better in its own way. As far as I'm concerned, the only problem with the design of the game is the AI is stupid. But the mods take care of that. The 'bugs' in the game aren't design faults, but should've been fixed by Activision. But if they wanna drop it, I gotta live with the bugs, and I will. Geeze, it's only a game. But a game I can change to suit me. That's why I'm modding, so I can play MY type of game. BTW, I thought CTP1 was good too.  So no need to "told you so" me cuz I disagree with you................................. now. ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
MrFun
Prince
United States, Iowa
Nov 2000
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posted January 31, 2001 20:30
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So you guys are crying over spilled milk because . . . .? |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted January 31, 2001 23:35
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Um, I'm laughing actually. I'm glad some people like the game, but in general you have to admit that we could see the failures coming. I'm also fascinated by the gamer's buying mentality. Usually it runs like this:"Damn, I'm gonna be more careful next time I think of rushing to buy a game." ...2 seconds later... "What? CtP3 is out?! Can I pre-order?" All of this just goes to show me that we, the gamers, can never make computer gaming companies (the run-of-the-mill ones, like Activision anyway) take us seriously because we don't take ourselves seriously. We fuel the very irresponsibility and abuse from gaming companies that we all wish would go away. Simply put, Activision knows a vast majority of gamers have short memories and deep pockets. The CtPs of the world will live on...just more material for comedy, I suppose. |
Dale
Warlord
Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2000
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posted February 01, 2001 00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by yin26 on 01-31-2001 11:35 PM
Simply put, Activision knows a vast majority of gamers have short memories and deep pockets. The CtPs of the world will live on...just more material for comedy, I suppose.
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Baaaaaa...... (Sorry if that perked up the ears of any Kiwis out there ) ...... baaaaaa. ....... everyone else buying CTP....... baaaaa ...... Must Buy ...... baaaaaaa...... ------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy. Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back." |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted February 01, 2001 02:33
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About Lemmings: quote:
Lemmings are good swimmers, but many drown trying to cross rivers and lakes. And they get eaten by trout. Others move to places where there's little food and starve. In some places, great swarms of lemmings have moved over wide areas of land to the sea, then plunge off cliffs and drown. But it's not animal suicide. The mass deaths are accidental.
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Yes, but were CtP 1 and 2 accidents? Or part of an evil plot to see if human beings are as witless as Lemmings? The world may never know... |
Grumbold
Warlord
London, UK
Mar 2000
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posted February 01, 2001 12:27
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I got my subscription copy of PC Gamer (Uk) today and was intrigued to see that a month after giving it a pretty positive review (unsurprising on a couple of days play) they had it in their "Recommended" feature as well as #1 in their TBS rankings. On principle I emailed them (and PC Strategy Games, my other favourite) a summary of all the more concrete points raised in the Patch 2 wishlist. A weak AI is one thing to refuse to patch, but bugged gameplay and unstable multiplayer is another. I believe magazines have a responsibility to warn their readers about this sort of thing, even if they do get egg on their faces for giving it a good review a month earlier. |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted February 01, 2001 19:15
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I agree with you, but sadly it never happens. That's another lesson I learned: NEVER trust the review that comes out relatively soon after a game's release. For unless there's some glaring issue, the true nature of the game simply can't be seen after playing it once or twice. Some magazines are reputable enough to put out a review after thoroughly testing a game, but most want to be out there with the first review so they can sell more reviews. The result of that is ovbious.So what I always do now is watch the forums and read the player reviews...AND I wait about a month or so before buying a game (assuming the player comments are good enough). For example, I didn't buy Baldur's Gate 2 until two weeks ago. I read the player reviews at Gamespot and got a VERY realistic sense of the game's strengths and weaknesses before deciding to buy.
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited February 01, 2001).] |
Slax
Prince
London, Ontario, Canada
b.02-15-99
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posted February 01, 2001 19:26
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We'll see who waits before buying Civ III...I know I will, but will you?
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Imran Siddiqui
Emperor
Patron Saint of Apolyton Story Threads
b.02-15-99
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posted February 01, 2001 20:59
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quote:
"Damn, I'm gonna be more careful next time I think of rushing to buy a game."...2 seconds later... "What? CtP3 is out?! Can I pre-order?"
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ROFTLOL! Well, you can spot problem companies... Activision is one of them. I do have faith in Firaxis and Interplay (at least the RPG division consisting of Bioware and Black Isle) though, and thus I'll buy their games on the first day . |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted February 01, 2001 21:25
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quote:
We'll see who waits before buying Civ III...I know I will, but will you?
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I guess if you're asking me, you missed the part where I said I didn't even ask for CtP2 as a gift. I imagine you are asking others...which is a good question. Imran, Yes, you gotta know your company (and then still be a bit careful). |
War4ever
Prince
Vancouver Canada PST
May 2000
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posted February 02, 2001 00:18
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Yin..... i am one of those who bought CTP1... hated it.... refused to buy CTP2 ..... pirated it off the net..... played it for about 5 days..... hated it..... deleted it off my small harddrive..... glad i didn't waste another 65 dollars on more crap from ****ivision... oops activision  |
yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted February 02, 2001 02:27
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Nice work! Activision deserved to be treated that way (sorry, but some companies scream, "WAREZ ME!"). If more people took that attitude, maybe the wheat would separate from the chaff much faster. Now let me just say, you should ALWAYS buy a game you enjoy (even if you played the whole thing on WAREZ first), since this is other important element: Rewarding GOOD companies for their work. |
Grumbold
Warlord
London, UK
Mar 2000
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posted February 02, 2001 06:50
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I agree, Imran. You learn to recognise companies which can be trusted to produce a quality game or at the very least keep patching until it works. Both Black Isle and Firaxis have a near perfect track record in this respect. Activision have caught me out several times and absolutely will not regain my trust. I'll be buying Civ III on the day it is released (even ordering from the US if the UK release is significantly delayed) but would wait for any future CtP product to bed in for at least a month before choosing whether or not to buy.I'm just disappointed that some obviously talented programmers, artists and designers have ended up with their names associated with a game that could have been so much better if only a little more time had been devoted to the final testing and tweaking. |
supremus
Chieftain
Feb 2000
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posted February 02, 2001 09:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumbold on 02-02-2001 06:50 AM
Activision have caught me out several times and absolutely will not regain my trust. I'll be buying Civ III on the day it is released (even ordering from the US if the UK release is significantly delayed) but would wait for any future CtP product to bed in for at least a month before choosing whether or not to buy.
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I agree in terms. In this field one should not trust
in any company, but wait for reviews and early buyers comments. Future CTP product ? How ? Activision have already give up (as far as I could understand) and said us good bye. |
Xerxes2
Settler
Everett, WA USA
Dec 2000
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posted February 02, 2001 15:20
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It just must be this CtP crowd that they hired from various back alleys somewhere causing all the problems.how obvious it is that you dont know what you're talking about....
Well, count me as one of those VERY unsatisfied customers. The game has never gotten beyond around 20 turns before hard locking my computer. Doubly bad is that I just spent $1400 getting a new computer so that I could play Zeus, because of that company's decisions regarding the non-ability of running that game. It seems that sometime, someplace, somehow these companies MUST be held accountable. If I, as a worker in my company, ever did such sleazy, shoddy work I'd be fired. How is it that a s/w company can just dump the people who made them what they are. We're supposed to be, as consumers, right (what happened to "the customer is always right"? ) or in this case dissatisfied/disillusioned. I don't want my money back, I want the game to work, period. If the company can't understand that I don't see why they're in business.
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MarkG
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted February 02, 2001 15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Xerxes2 on 02-02-2001 03:20 PM
Well, count me as one of those VERY unsatisfied customers. The game has never gotten beyond around 20 turns before hard locking my computer.
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and in my computer it has never crashed under normal conditions(when i dont try to play the alexander scenario with 32 civs for example). and there have been tons of people posting that ctp2 was far more stable than most games |
MarkG
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted February 02, 2001 15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui on 02-01-2001 08:59 PM
I do have faith in Firaxis and Interplay (at least the RPG division consisting of Bioware and Black Isle) though, and thus I'll buy their games on the first day .
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hay Imran, here's something interesting! quote:
MobyGames Summary:
David Ray has worked on games in 2000. Has been credited with Programming. Has worked with the following game development companies: Activision, Inc. and Black Isle Studios.
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Bkeela
Prince
Brisbane, Australia
Oct 1999
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posted February 02, 2001 23:04
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Yin26, I found your topic delightful. It is highly amusing to see MarkG on the defensive! I haven't even bothered downloading CTP 2 yet, and I don't think I will actually.Bkeela. |
WesW
apolyton.net/wes
Huntsville, Al., USA
b.02-15-99
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posted February 02, 2001 23:55
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Game stability from one system to the next is a gamble with any game, from my experience. I never was able to get past SMAC's NeedleJet bug, yet I never have had to even re-install Ctp1 despite a few HUNDRED crashes caused by my mod work. |
Imran Siddiqui
Emperor
Patron Saint of Apolyton Story Threads
b.02-15-99
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posted February 03, 2001 04:21
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Mark, One programmer does not make a game bug free... in fact the game is made bug free because of the big bad company, NOT the programmer. Activison = BAD Company, Interplay = GOOD Company -> at least when it comes to bug testing.And obviously, he wasn't integral to their sucess at Black Isle and thus wasn't needed. edit: After all, I like Brian Reynolds for Civ2, but will I buy a game from his BHG? Not a chance in Hell.
[This message has been edited by Imran Siddiqui (edited February 03, 2001).] |
MrFun
Prince
United States, Iowa
Nov 2000
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posted February 03, 2001 12:11
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Look at George W. Bush - he's FULL of bugs! |
Pyaray
Warlord
Garden Grove, CA, USA
Oct 2000
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posted February 03, 2001 15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui on 02-03-2001 04:21 AM
And obviously, he wasn't integral to their sucess at Black Isle and thus wasn't needed.
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Well, I was the senior programmer on Icewind Dale. I'd like to think that makes me kind of integral to the success of that product. And believe me, they wanted me to stay. Pyaray |
Imran Siddiqui
Emperor
Patron Saint of Apolyton Story Threads
b.02-15-99
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posted February 04, 2001 01:59
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Some people MUST learn what the smilies mean... I'm not naming names.. |
MarkG
Apolyton CS Co-Administrator
Greece
b.02-15-99
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posted February 04, 2001 04:04
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it seems that lately you use smilies a lot to "cover" what you really want to say imran... |
GP
Emperor
Atlanta, GA
b.02-15-99
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posted February 04, 2001 15:54
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Yin, you are such a little worm. Don't you have anything better to get jacked up about than being a "*****" leader?Remember when you promised to write a full review about CTP1 and then never did it? Pathetic...
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yin26
Civ3 Forums Moderator
Work in Seoul, Korea. From Los Angeles.
Apr 99
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posted February 04, 2001 19:07
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GP:Get a life. I never finished the review 'cause the game sucked. Gee, hard to imagine, eh? CtP2 is looking the same after an hour or two of playing. You gonna cry when my review doesn't come out? Talk about pathetic...follwing me around like a little schoolgirl in heat. It's O.K., GP, I'll throw some posts your way some day.
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited February 04, 2001).] |
Imran Siddiqui
Emperor
Patron Saint of Apolyton Story Threads
b.02-15-99
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posted February 04, 2001 19:45
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quote:
it seems that lately you use smilies a lot to "cover" what you really want to say imran...
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 Yes... no one uses smilies for sarcasm anymore? Perhaps you should ****ing check out your God damn Off Topic before you make stupid non-sensical horse**** statements! And notice, no ****ing smily! Suck on it! |
MrFun
Prince
United States, Iowa
Nov 2000
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posted February 04, 2001 20:17
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Is this why you call yourself a patron saint of Apolyton? |
Imran Siddiqui
Emperor
Patron Saint of Apolyton Story Threads
b.02-15-99
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posted February 04, 2001 21:30
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Learn to Read DickWeed... Story Threads... (mutters) illiterate bastards. |
Thread Closed 
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