So Activision, or Mr. Ogre or whatever heres what I think...you can either sit back in the comfort that you've promised a good game, made a rather mediocre one and taken our money. I'm not accusing you of anything but if thats true than I have no other recourse but to label you a thief. Understand that I paid REAL money for this game and your AI is laughable.

OR

You can respond to this forum and at least let us know you're working on these issues. If thats the case I'd say you're doing what you can, you didn't mean to make the AI and other issues so lackluster, but you're living up to the obligations of the fans.

Then again you may never respond. I don't think I'll be buying another activision product in this life if not. I had to order this game because the local PX didn't carry it. If I don't hear news of a patch reasonably soon I'll be suggesting to AAFES not to carry Acrtivision products at all. (and don't scoff...the military usually will ban products that they deem unfair.)

Gee, if I was Mr Ogre I would sure respond to this...NOT!

First, Mr Ogre is here on his time for our benefit. He doesn't have to do this at all.

Second, Mr Ogre has no control over what gets done nor in what time frame.

Third and most important, Mr Ogre is on a much needed vacation. That is why he is not around.

quote: Originally posted by skorpion59 on 01-06-2001 06:51 PM D4, Gee, if I was Mr Ogre I would sure respond to this...NOT! First, Mr Ogre is here on his time for our benefit. He doesn't have to do this at all. Second, Mr Ogre has no control over what gets done nor in what time frame. Third and most important, Mr Ogre is on a much needed vacation. That is why he is not around. MrLen, 4 out of 4! I think AH just lost his spot.

Are you Mr Ogres love child? Or are you infatuated with me and my constructive comments? Once again, please keep your comments 'general','to the point' and 'to the subject'... actually no, keep them 'to yourself'

quote: Originally posted by skorpion59 on 01-06-2001 06:51 PM D4, Gee, if I was Mr Ogre I would sure respond to this...NOT! First, Mr Ogre is here on his time for our benefit. He doesn't have to do this at all. Second, Mr Ogre has no control over what gets done nor in what time frame.

So he "doesn't have to do this at all" does he? Then we don't have to buy his games in the future.

Every one of activision people who follow these forums should be thanked. No one says they have to read all these threads about how crappy their game is. Yet they still come and provide valuable assistance to those that are trying to improve the game. As a result many of us are getting hours of enjoyment, not only from the playing but from the satifaction that we CAN make this a pretty good game.

So let me take this opportunity to add my thanks to all the activision programmers that have provided help.

quote: Originally posted by MrLeN on 01-06-2001 07:01 PM Are you Mr Ogres love child? Or are you infatuated with me and my constructive comments? Once again, please keep your comments 'general','to the point' and 'to the subject'... actually no, keep them 'to yourself'

I'm not saying that we shouldn't get a response from someone at Activision... I think we're being shafted too. But geez, give skorpion59 a break. He's right on every point. And it's not like he's the one who put out the game. Be civil, for God's sake.

First of all, I wasn't replying to scorpi head in the first place... NERD!, I was being 'jokingly' sarcastic towards D4everman's comments about Mr Ogre!

Secondly Scorpi head started on me!
Quote... "MrLen, 4 out of 4!
I think AH just lost his spot."

...and I could't figure out why he would bother...you NERD!!!

...and just to stop the domino effect, if anyone wants to say something about THIS post, then please read D4everman's post, then go on to mine, then read Scorpi head's then read my reply to scorpi head, then read MidKnight Laments comment, and double check THIS post to see if what you are saying is actually factual !!!

Therefore, I at no time in this thread have contradicted ANYTHING that Scorpi head said, NERD!!!

P.S... MidKnight Lament brain is a NERD!!!!

quote: Originally posted by MrLeN on 01-08-2001 04:53 PM First of all, I wasn't replying to scorpi head in the first place... NERD!, I was being 'jokingly' sarcastic towards D4everman's comments about Mr Ogre!

Then learn how to quote the right person, imbecile.

quote: Secondly Scorpi head started on me! Quote... "MrLen, 4 out of 4! I think AH just lost his spot."

That's because you said something stupid and inflammitory, which is obviously the main reason you're here. It's also why you're not worth arguing with, and why I'm going to leave it here.

quote: ...and I could't figure out why he would bother...you NERD!!! Therefore, I at no time in this thread have contradicted ANYTHING that Scorpi head said, NERD!!! P.S... MidKnight Lament brain is a NERD!!!!

You're a true intellectual. It's been a pleasure.

Maybe I'm giving Activision the benefit of the doubt by actually believing that they will "eventually" come out with a second "viable" patch to this game. However squabbling amongst each other is not solving anything.

Yes, it would be nice if we heard from an Activision official letting us know that they are working on a second patch...How about it Activision?

As for me, my main gripe with the game is the broken multiplayer option of the game (I enjoy playing with/against other human players - even with the idiotic AIs)

I know that there is a special area for multiplay problems, however, a lot of the multiplay problems are also in the single game. For anyone who's interested, I've posted my findings and general feelings about CTP2 in the multiplay area under the thread started by gp3 - Multiplayer Fixed? I think NOT.

Please accept my apology. I want us all to be friends. Again, to all, i'm sorry. I'll try not to be a hothead in the future.

(But they I get knocked down, but i get up again....)

quote: Originally posted by D4everman on 01-09-2001 05:13 PM Please accept my apology. I want us all to be friends. Again, to all, i'm sorry. I'll try not to be a hothead in the future. D4

Err, we'll have less of that if you don't mind!

Stand your ground man and demand yer right's! We don't want any backing down round here.

Awwwww, what a moment.

quote: Originally posted by skorpion59 on 01-06-2001 06:51 PM D4, Gee, if I was Mr Ogre I would sure respond to this...NOT! First, Mr Ogre is here on his time for our benefit. He doesn't have to do this at all. Second, Mr Ogre has no control over what gets done nor in what time frame. Third and most important, Mr Ogre is on a much needed vacation. That is why he is not around. MrLen, 4 out of 4! I think AH just lost his spot.

Hey I'm sure Mr. Ogre is on a well deserved vacation. But, is he the only Activision representative? What happened to that Pay... (I call him Mr P) from way back when. You are right. They do not need to respond to anything on this site. And everyone on this site and others could 'boycott' thier damn games too!. Then they could all find a real jobs!

But, seriously...most everyone on this site has voiced legitment suggestions and/or problems. Many have already 'forked up' the 50 bucks or more. They deserve some legitiment communication with the 'honchos' so they may know that their voices and feelings are being heard. I have not purchased CTP2. It is missing an option which is critical (or crucial) to me (Hot Seat). Activision's lack of semi-regular response to this site (a site which is as well prepared, versed and large as this one with so many 'visitors') really moves me furthter away from ever buying this or any other games of theirs.

They need not respond every day. Review all the various messages and respond with concise answers (if possible) once or twice a month. Wow...how tough could that be? Most of us are smart enough to know that they cannot fix every problems over-night or implement every idea submitted to them.

I they want respect from their customers....they should treat their customers with respect. And amazingly enough, many of their customers vistit this site reguarly.

quote: Originally posted by Mike the Nuke on 01-15-2001 11:17 PM What happened to that Pay... (I call him Mr P) from way back when. You are right. They do not need to respond to anything on this site. And everyone on this site and others could 'boycott' thier damn games too!. Then they could all find a real jobs!

I assume you mean me, that would be Pyaray. Well, I still read the posts, and every now and then reply. But I'll tell you the main reason that I haven't replied lately, I don't work for Activision anymore. I just left quietly and didn't make a post about it, because I moved on to other things. You'll notice I don't have the Activision tag on my posting anymore either. Nor have my last few posts had that. So I can't give you any kind of "official answer" that you're asking for. But I'll give you some insider information into the industry as a whole, below...

quote: Activision's lack of semi-regular response to this site (a site which is as well prepared, versed and large as this one with so many 'visitors') really moves me furthter away from ever buying this or any other games of theirs. I they want respect from their customers....they should treat their customers with respect. And amazingly enough, many of their customers vistit this site reguarly.

I have now worked for 5 different game companies, 3 of them in the top 10 companies. Out of those 5 companies, 3 of them (well 2.5 of them, one company changed there stance) have told me in no uncertain terms that I am NOT allowed to post to public forums regarding the development of the games I work on. So the fact that Activision allowed us to post, and even somewhat encouraged it, is actually a good thing, and they shouldn't be criticised at all for that fact. If you take a good long look at most game companies, I bet you'd find very few developers actually post at all, and of the ones that do post for the most part it's a PR or marketing person who does all the postings. You're not going to get technical information from those people, simply because they don't have it. Activision should really be commended for there reasonably open stance on such things.

Now all that said, I don't have any answers at all for you regarding any of your questions, nor could I answer them due to conflicts of interest, and the fact that I no longer work there. All I was attempting to do with this post is shed some light that they really are much better about posting than they are getting credit for. And that most of the other companies I have worked for have been much worse about it.

quote: Originally posted by MrFun on 01-16-2001 03:15 PM And unfortunately, I don't recall anyone thanking Activision staff who did post replies here. I'm guilty of that too, so let me say - thanks towards all Activision staff who may have posted here.

I have in the past thanked the Activision staff who have posted here in their free time. I do appreciate their commitment to this site, and to their product. Now if all the marketing weenies would just crawl into a hole somewhere and die we might be able to get decent products from some company somewhere again.

When will the next patch be released?

Are you even working on one? A yes to this would give me (at the very least, maybe others, too) alot more patience with Activision.

Will PBEM and HotSeat be in the (problematic) next patch?

Or do I get to make a big post that says:

I told you so!!!!!

quote: Originally posted by Cannes on 01-09-2001 10:00 AM Of course I agree that the game should work propably from the beginning, but the constant bickering about it won't make anything happen, we just have to accept the situation as it is and come up with the best we can, eh?

Wrong! That's the problem today. Companies put out "crap" and we the customers get 'stuck'. We're just supposed to 'like it and lump it'. BULL! The companies should put out quality, adn well tested products. Today they have unbelievable resources for improving ther products with the customer. This site is a prime example. I bet there are several people out there that follow and input to this site (non-Activision folks) that could help them test their stuff and/or patches. I just don't see Activision putting much effort into it. I read a lot of excuses (none from them as they seldom post here anymore) from various people. "Activison folks on vacation, sick, onto something new, it's not their job, their too busy, etc". If your product is "junk" or comes up "short" of expectations and hype, you should work to fix it. Why should we, the customers (and potential customers) buy any more of their products? After all, it seems like they do little to support what they have, except collect their money. Personally, I'm sick and tired of buying products from companies (not just Activision) and getting something less than what I expected in both quality and design, and then being left to like it or tough s___t!

"Screw the consumer" That must be the latest ammendment to the Constituion or something. It seems to happen all the time. We need to stick up for ourselves and force companies to create better products or boycott the 'junkie'/tropublesome ones.

I guess their comments could be, "Thanks for forking the $50 for our 'so, so' game. Hope enjoy fixing it for us so you can play it and get full enjoyment from the product. Once you make those fixes, we hope you will share them with all, so that more will buy our game and we can make more on what we delivered as an 'unfinished product' Now we're now going to create our next "money sucker" that should be out just in time for the next holiday".

quote: Originally posted by Big Dave on 01-17-2001 11:54 AM I have in the past thanked the Activision staff who have posted here in their free time. I do appreciate their commitment to this site, and to their product. Now if all the marketing weenies would just crawl into a hole somewhere and die we might be able to get decent products from some company somewhere again. When will the next patch be released? Are you even working on one? A yes to this would give me (at the very least, maybe others, too) alot more patience with Activision. Will PBEM and HotSeat be in the (problematic) next patch? Or do I get to make a big post that says: I told you so!!!!!

RIGHT ON! I've also complimented them when they responded/posted. When they post, it at least gives the appearance that they care.

quote: Originally posted by MrFun on 01-17-2001 09:27 PM Unfortunately, some people are infected by the Whining Virus. Its only known method of contagion is through posts over the Internet. I had that virus for a short time, but fortunately, I rid myself the virus. The cure - implement the modifications that others have introduced or suggested, and god forbid - try your own modifications.

There is a diference between folks 'whining' and being upset at being taken. Here's a little scenario for you:

You decide that you want to update or make improvements to your house (assuming that you own one; not trying to be derogatory here, just making this assumption). You hire contractors (electrical, building, plumbing). You pay them when they finish the job (completion of the job is like the product, everthing looks good visually and generally appears to work as does the game packaging and many of it's features). You proceed to use the bathroom. When you flush the toilet, you find that the contents are sent to your bathtub (sort of nasty). You turn on your lights and the power trips to your house. After some 'excuses' and "oh, we're working on that", these folks come back and "fix" things (a patch). Now when you try the toilet, it's contents are delivered to your kitchen sink! You turn on the lights and the garage door opens. Now you try to contact them and 'they're hard to reach', 'don't respond','it must be something your doing wrong', 'let somebody else fix it', etc. I bet you're not going to be one to complain(after all you wouldn't want to be thought of as a 'whiner'). You'll just try to make the 'best of it', right? I doubt. Yes, CTP2 is only a game. It only cost $50. No one is going to die or have anything bad happen to them, nor will the world come to an end because the 'stupid' game doesn't function as expected or comes up short of what was hoped for. But, the analogy is similar. Quality. You pay for something and you should get the quality product (or workmanship) that you were paying for along with the continued support, respect and concern until the product works properly (any mods you do would not be covered, guarenteed or warrented).

There's an old saying that says, "The 'squeaking' wheel gets greased". If enough people complain loud enough (or 'whine', as you prefer to call it) about the problems they are having or 'short comings' in the product that they have found, maybe (just maybe) they will get fixed. If we all sit around like we're 'fat, dumb and happy' , well, that's just what they will think. And if we all try to fix all their 'screw-ups' for them, well, it will sure make them happy. And finally. All the mods that folks try, do not necessarily fix problems. More often than not, they create new ones, which of coures Activision will not support (not that they seem to be supporting much now, but hopefully they are working on some improvement/fix-it patches). Make them fix their 'junk', then they will have to support their own 'fixes'.

quote: Originally posted by Mike the Nuke on 01-17-2001 10:04 PM You decide that you want to update or make improvements to your house (assuming that you own one; not trying to be derogatory here, just making this assumption). You hire contractors (electrical, building, plumbing). You pay them when they finish the job (completion of the job is like the product, everthing looks good visually and generally appears to work as does the game packaging and many of it's features).

WARNING: Ranting about to take place.

Let's try another analogy shall we. Let's say you buy a book that you've been wanting to read for a very long time. But the ending doesn't turn out how you wanted it to. And there were a few typographical errors. Would you expect a new version of the book to be published to fix all the things about the book you didn't like?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the bugs are acceptable and just live with it. It's just comparing bugs in a game to your house falling apart is a little extreme. In the case of your house falling apart that will ruin your life. In the case of a bad book, or a problematic game, it's just an interuption of your pleasure activities. Also, in one case you paid the contractors to build things in the exact specification that you asked for, in the other case you're buying a prepacked thing that all the decisions were made by the author. If you wanted to pay for the development of a game, you'd get exactly the game you wanted. However, most, if not all, of you are unwilling to pay several million dollars for a game.

And writing software is a lot more like writing a book than building a house. No software ever written has satisfied every single person who used it (unless that software was written for like 3 people), and likewise no book has ever satisfied everyone.

If you look at all the things people are asking for in "Patch #2" and break it up into actual bugs, where something doesn't work, and into the "wish list", things people want but weren't in the game. You'll find that there are actually very few in the bugs list. I just looked at the (first page) of the "Path #2 Wishlist" thread in the other forum. And there are very few actual bugs that people are talking about. The one that seems to be mentioned more than any others is "Hotseat". Well I'm afraid that't NOT A BUG. That was a design decision. And while many of you are not happy about it being removed, you can't compare the fact that we removed that feature to flushing your toilet and having it fill your bathtub.

OK, I'm done with my soap box now. Anyone else want to use it?