For MarkG and everyone here, I did make sure that I told these gentilmen that if they really wanted to get more input on this game before they release it around Thanksgiving (that's what they told me) that they should have their game design people visit this site (their reaction was "Apolyton Who??", but after another 15 minutes of explaining what this site is all about, I think I convinced them that they should come to us for advice).

first of all, thanks for the... advertisement

3 New Wonders--Penicillin is the only one I can remember, sorry. (Remember, I wasn't a big fan of CTP so I wasn't writing any of the new stuff down).

They said they improved the AI and game interface, especially the combat--no stacks of Phalanxes taking out tanks.

City window from what I saw was more detailed with more options.

New Civ's, but again I don't remember them.

That's is all I can tell, sorry for not being able to give more details. Remember also, I did not go to GenCon for CTP2, I went for the seminars on D&D and trying to get my stuff published, I just stumbled upon the CTP2 booth.

MarkG--there were two guys at the booth, the one I was talking to said he was part of the design team, again I didn't write his name down or can remember it. Sorry.

1. CTP being cram full of bugs. Show me 1 game that didnt have bugs when released. Unless everyone buys the EXACT same computer there will never be a totally bug free game released. No possible way for a company to run the game on every possible setup out there. But Activision did release patches to fix things they didn't know about. More than I can say for some other companies.

I ran CTP (single player) without patches and did not have any problems.

2. Scenario support. The CTP box did NOT say it supported scenarios. Something i believe should be supported, and was a major problem with CTP. But it never said it was supported. The patches helped some with this. It wasn't something that they promised game would do, but they tried to make it easier anyway.

3. Differences from CivII. Diplomacy wasn't much better than CivII, but was not much worse either. I have played CivII, and the diplomacy was basically the same as CivI. Public works was a change I much welcomed. Hated the fact each city had to support their own units when its a country, not bunch of little cities on their own. Cant wait to see the concept of placing every city worker on their own tile go away in CTP2.

okay, im done blowing off steam. Flame away.

2. The box may not have said it supported scenarios, but I've had contact with Activision since being a beta tester for CTP1, and I was told repeatedly that full scenario support would be part of that game. I even recall being given a specific date by John P. a few weeks before the game came out- two weeks after the release the first patch would fix everything related to scenarios and maps. Activision made scenarios posted on the official website would quickly follow. We all know how well those promises held up.

3. Diplomacy would have been better than Civ2 if it was properly implemented, but it wasn't, so all the game reviews pointed at diplomacy as being particularly badly implemented, and Activision folks have more or less admitted it sucked. For all I can remember, you're the first person to argue otherwise.

Given all that, that doesn't necessarily say much about CTP2. Obviously the Activision team made a decision that CTP1 was too broken, and decided to start with a clean slate and make CTP2 instead of more patches and addons for CTP1. That left a lot of fans feeling burned, including me, but it would be hardly the first time for me to see games incomplete and poorly supported. The question is, come Christmas, will CTP2 be a better game than CTP1 plus more patches and an add on CD a la Civ2's Fantastic Worlds would have been? I think the answer will be yes, and the price of CTP2 will probably be the same (or close) as the add on pack would have been anyways, judging how those things are priced these days.

In the short term, that decision to bag CTP1 was pretty frustrating, but in the long term hopefully we'll have a better game that holds up for years to come. Plus, it seems Activision has had a change of heart in terms of talking to and listening to the fans, and implementing their suggestions.

quote: Originally posted by Slax on 08-18-2000 10:07 PM I'd also like to add that most reviews gave CTP I poor or average reviews. So you can't say you expected a perfect product, if you did the proper reading. And you can't complain if a FAN site emphasizes the positives.

I don't pay attention to movie or game reviews. Most reviewers don't know what I'm looking for in a game. I've thoroughly enjoyed many games dissed by reviews.

------------------
Big Dave

quote: Originally posted by Harlan on 08-18-2000 09:04 PM Given all that, that doesn't necessarily say much about CTP2. Obviously the Activision team made a decision that CTP1 was too broken, and decided to start with a clean slate and make CTP2 instead of more patches and addons for CTP1. That left a lot of fans feeling burned, including me, but it would be hardly the first time for me to see games incomplete and poorly supported. The question is, come Christmas, will CTP2 be a better game than CTP1 plus more patches and an add on CD a la Civ2's Fantastic Worlds would have been? I think the answer will be yes, and the price of CTP2 will probably be the same (or close) as the add on pack would have been anyways, judging how those things are priced these days.

Unfortunatly regular Civ add-ons are priced just like a full game. So I guess what you're saying is that CTP2 is going to priced like a full game and the price for the should-have-been add-on is not something to get mad about.

Well, yes and no. At least with an add-on the space layer would still have been there. This was one of the very cool features in CTP that I'm sorry is not going to be there in CTP2. Granted that space cities were bland and boring. I rarely built them other than the free one I got for the Space Needle (or whatever that wonder was called). But for transport the space layer rocked! What a great way to recon the entire planet! I usually play on large maps and it can be a real pain hunting down a renegade civ that is keeping me from winning the game (Alien what? Bloodlust for me, thankyou very much).

So please pardon me if I'm somewhat disgruntled by this add-on that fixes what was broken in the game and takes away a feature I very much enjoyed.

------------------
Big Dave

You're crazy to just by a product based on the word of the company without reading reviews or forums. I don't have time to look for all the old reviews of it, but Gamespot gave it a 6.7/10 and Gamecentre 6/10. The problems they noticed, some subjective, others not, were there in black and white.

I read the reviews and bought the product, and loved it. I feel I got my money's worth.

Also, I remember something that the guy I was talking to said something that they improved somethings in the diplomacy screen. I'd probably would have to re-install CTP and actually play it to jogg those memories.

------------------
Big Dave

The city radius is now 3 squares instead of 2.
Plus you have borders like in AC.

The more I keep talking about it, the more it seems I'm able to remember.

I wonder what else I might have forgotten???

------------------
Big Dave

------------------
Big Dave