I don't think anyone should judge a computer game from screenshots (unless thay are really awful looking). Always wait for reviews by people who have actually played the game.

I'd rather play Colonization or Civ1 over CtP, that's how bad the gameplay was, or at least what it couldn't measure up to.

quote: I'd rather play Colonization or Civ1 over CtP, that's how bad the gameplay was, or at least what it couldn't measure up to.

Then perhaps what you ought to do is continue playing those games and not tax your blood pressure over a game that you do not wish to play....

meriadoc:
Excellent point and analogy.

If you are expecting the same Civ game you know and love, forget it, this is CTP and it's different. I personally love the unconventional warfare units and the way trade has been abstracted, just to name 2 of the improvements. The development team from Activision is listening to what we say in here. That means that the players are helping to design this game!!!!

You know how I feel about Activision doing us all wrong with CTP so I won't re-iterate that here, but I've got some hope for CTP2. I will of course try it before I buy, and I recommend that you do the same.

Yes, screenshots can be little more than eye candy. On the other hand some information has been gleaned from them. One of the things we've seen in screen shots are many more diplomatic options. Others are national borders and a city "radius" that grows as your city does. What are your comments on those?
Respectfully,

quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda on 07-27-2000 04:23 PM I just don't want nonsensical units (ie unit with a TV head).

Then how would you make a distinctive unit that's supposed to be a Televangelist?

One minutes you're saying that graphics don't make the game (the implied statement here is they can't break it, either) and the next you're griping about an icon.

Do you care?
You haven't even responded to one of the previous comments I made.

Is there a possibility you'll even play CTP2 once? Or are you just (as I once rudely suggested in another thread) another AH?

------------------
Big Dave

As for the other units, I personally think that they didn't look aggressive enough.

My advice to you Osco, is to actually talk on-topic and act like you have intelligence to begin with, bendejo.

Back:

However negative I think some of Darth's views are, I have to say I'm with him on the Televangelist.

And while were on it, why does the Cleric look like the Slaver with a dress on?

Also shouldn't Corporate Branch be available much later in the game, as he obviously has a futuristic anti-gravity desk?

i dont pay $40+ to see something i already have sitting on the back shelf collecting dust (afterall, i bought ctp practically at opening on the release date...and it lasted 18 days on my pc - 6 for each patch + 6 for the boxed - it has collected ALOT of dust since on my shelf...good thing i dont make the same mistakes twice, though =).

so, i fully agree with darthvada et al. that the graphics are, but should not be, recycled ... regardless of how good they were.

------------------
Big Dave

Yes we know fancy graphics are used many times to hide terrible gameplay, but were talking about Intelligent use of graphics. CTP1 doesn't use graphics intelligently, if it did you wouldn't get only a few ancient city icons, guys with television heads, amazing anti-gravity desks and numerous graphical repetitions.

Dave: Well it's a call to power "first". It sounds interesting but if it is the sole perk of the game, count me out because it's really "Game Over" with M.A.D.

Why do you think they call it M.A.D. anyway? You use the feature and you are toast. I wouldn't go and build the your impression of the game around a game-ending feature.

Cheap shot of the day: This just in! Activision announces that an add-on for "Call-to-Power", "Call-to-Power II: The Game", will be in stores this fall.

quote: I believe the point is that if there is little visual change evident in the screen shots provided, it implys that the game as a whole is nothing more than a glorified patch. And however many "New" features might have been added, a lot of CTP1's bad features will be carried over into CTP2.

Some time (in another thread) I'd be very interested in knowing what chain of reasoning led to most of that, Kaiser. I've seen Ford Mustangs with the same body style and color but one had a 4 cylinder and the other had an 8 cylinder engine. Tell me because they look the same they'll function the same!

As for CTP2 being a patch, search on my name for the past 5 months for my opinion on that. It's not very flattering to Activision.....

Darth, much of the point of that thread was how to make it so that a nuclear war is NOT the end of the game.

How about the increase in diplomatic options? This was universally acknowledged as one of the major weak points in CTP, the screenshots we've seen show that at least some effort has been spent to try and correct this.

Of course if you're mind is already made up little things like facts won't change it.

------------------
Big Dave

quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda on 08-03-2000 07:48 PM Why do you think they call it M.A.D. anyway? You use the feature and you are toast. I wouldn't go and build your impression of the game around a game-ending feature.

My point here is also that Activision is listening to us and making changes we, the players, suggest. This is not the first time they've done this, either.

------------------
Big Dave

quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda on 08-04-2000 02:03 AM So what CTP2 so far is, according to you guys, is a fix for all the glaring errors in CTP (minus the cruddy interface) and the addition of M.A.D., a game-over feature, and a few new graphics.

Darth, are you even bothering to read my posts? I ask you ligit questions and you just go off flaming on another tangent, ignoring my post. I've been trying to be polite but I'm about to brand you a troll and start ignoring you.

So, for the third time, what about new features like improved diplomacy, national borders, and expanding city radii? Have you used your eyes or only your "mouth"?

------------------
Big Dave

One Here at Apolyton

I did say this though:

quote: If the mistakes of Call to Power can be heeded, and all of the goodies included with the game picked up for the upcoming Civilization III, and eventually Call to Power 2, the 4X genre should witness a new rebirth like has not been seen since the good ol' days of Civ II.

They may have fixed Call to Power's mistakes, but it looks as if they are making new ones (ie copying the art from the original--I have never seen a sequel do this).

Art doesn't make the game but it gives me the impression that Activision is putting in a less than superior effort on this game. It's the only solid thing I have to go on, and it looks pretty shaky.

I might say that these were just temporary graphics, but I know that's not true because CtP2 is going to escape sometime before Christmas (and marketing will stick that down their throats--done or not). That my friends, is too soon for these graphics to be a temp.

Big Dave: Yes I know about expanding city radii, national borders, and improved diplomacy. Now I will tell you the only one that I haven't heard of is expanding city radii. The other two were done first in Master of Orion II (1997--diplomacy), and SMAC (1998--borders). So a game that is two years late on two of the four features that you guys are marking as it's flagship features...

...don't look at me funny if I'm not getting extatic.

My Thoughts on MAD -- Again

Ok, let's look at M.A.D. Say you have the same amount of nukes your oponent does. Let's say around 4-5. Not the end of the world per se. Your 4-5 largest cities will dissapear from the map though....

Now multiply the polution effect x2 on those cities... get where I'm going so far?

Now say you both have a large number of nukes (10 or more). You've gotten into a war you can't hope to win because the pollution alone is going to destroy you. Plus your 10 major production centers are toast. This is why it's called M.A.D. It's a frickin deadlock you can't hope to win, because you aren't willing to sacrafice your poor cities.

Ahh. You say you have SDI? Well if activision programs this right, the other civ should act with incredible hostility if you try to break M.A.D.

We have already seen some of the changes to diplomacy and so-forth. Special unit use should be improved.
I think some of the biggest improvements will be "under the surface" stuff like the SLIC2 and AI routines.
The SLIC thing in particular may be the biggest improvement/innovation to the genre in years.

I will be very surprised if the people in charge of this sequel make the mistake of those of the original in ignoring the input of game-testers.
Btw, I love Big Dave's statement that CtP1 escaped rather than being released. I also believe that this was not the decision of the game-makers.

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold on 08-04-2000 12:52 PM Graphics are important. They succeed if you can see the action clearly and are visually pleasing. In this respect there was definite improvement from civ1-civ2-ctp. SMAC is a personal choice: I disliked its approach. ToT was a no contest loser. Every unit and terrain type was harder to distinguish than in civ2. For added amusement some distinctly different terrain types in the space set were visually identical. If Apolyton can't find a sensible way to improve the generally very good graphics from ctp then I sincerely hope that they leave them well alone. ToT just proves how all the resources spent rebuilding the entire graphics set can be an appalling mistake. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

Ah yes, but Test of Time wasn't being hawked as a sequel. Only an add-on (admitedly a very expensive add-on).

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold on 08-04-2000 03:32 PM Would you like to suggest what it is they could improve apart from the occasional unit? Sounds like you want to see visual differences for no better reason than to feel you got your money's worth. Forget the thousands of hours of effort spent improving the actual gameplay, if the grass and trees are the same shade of green they didn't do a good job??

I'm just saying don't directly copy from one game to another. I wouldn't want terrain from SMAC showing up in Civ3...

I was thinking that Activision would want to shy away from making this title look like it's predecessor more than associating it to that title.

On with my comparrison...

One thing I really hated about the first was that I couldn't cancel out a qued move without making one in another direction.

On with my comparrison...

One thing I really hated about the first was that I couldn't cancel out a qued move without making one in another direction.

Maybe they actually fixed this?!

quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda on 08-05-2000 07:47 AM No, I'm just here to say that I don't want this game to turn into a true sequel of call-to-power 1, if you understand what I mean... On with my comparrison... One thing I really hated about the first was that I couldn't cancel out a qued move without making one in another direction. Maybe they actually fixed this?!

Now we're getting somewhere! Thank you for airing a valid complaint, something MrOgre & Co. might be able to do something about!!!

quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda on 08-05-2000 07:47 AM What I really hated most was the developer's mentality that anything they leave broke will be fixed by the users. Hopefully they don't repeat this.

If Activision pulls this stunt again I'll probably buy the game just so I can start a class action lawsuit for fraud against them.

------------------
Big Dave

This is a thread about how the look of the screenshot's so far don't give us confidence that a lot has fundamentally changed about the game.