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Topic: FINAL TM DECISIONS MADE. TMs: Details on how to start inside... |  |
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yin26
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 09:04
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This is a classic example of when the voting process doesn't work, especially on the Internet. We have topics. Now, I'm going to 'fix' this TM thing so we can get started.FINAL DECISION CIVILIZATIONS: Picker
CITIES/CITY IMPROVEMENTS: CyberShy & Victor Galis (co-hosts)
COMBAT: Hannes & Victor Galis (co-hosts)
CUSTOMIZATION: kd5bjo & Hugo Rune (co-hosts)
DIPLOMACY: Rollo
GRAPHICS AND INTERFACE: Frank Moore
MAP/TERRAIN/TERRAFORMING: EnochF & eNo (co-hosts)
MULTIPLAYER: DanS
MISCELLANEOUS: Smilo
RADICAL IDEAS: korn469
RESOURCE MANAGEMENT/ECONOMICS/TRADE: Kefaed
SOCIAL ENGINEERING: Bell
TECHNOLOGY: Snowfire
UNITS: JT3 & Victor Galis (co-hosts)
WONDERS: Q Cubed Victor: Can you please choose one or two threads? I think you'll argree three is a bit much. Check your e-mails for the password (No e-mail address? No password). You should start your threads according to our titles above (capitals for the topic name and then lower-case). Examples: quote:
CIVILIZATIONS: Managed by Picker
MAP/TERRAIN/TERRAFORMING: Co-Managed by EnochF & eNo
Two reasons for putting your names in the titles this way: 1) It helps the threads stand out a bit better. 2) In the case of threads being co-managed, only one name (the topic-starter's name) would appear otherwise. REMEMBER: Summaries go on the Wish List forum (same titles as here, just nobody can reply to it). So, your first post in your Suggestions forum threads should start with a welcome, including a brief hope that people will feel free to share ideas etc., and a link to the Wish List forum (or at least a message telling people to go there for the latest summary). No summary yet? Well, ask people to help give you ideas so you can MAKE one!  NOW LET'S GET STARTED!!! P.S. You'll still have to 'sign' the Thread Manager's Creed. I'll post that later on. For now, please start your threads here and on the Wish List forum.
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited 06-24-1999).] |
Octopus
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 10:25
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"This is a classic example of when the voting process doens't work, especially on the Internet. We have topics. Now, I'm going to 'fix' this TM thing so we can get started."Does this represent the desires of the potential Thread Managers in question, or is this another unilateral decision?
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DickK
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 10:27
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Don't see a place really appropriate to discuss victory conditions or governments. I'd suggest the "civilizations" title change to "Civilizations and Leaders". Might want to make diplomacy include governments, not sure tho'.Also, it might be useful to set some really basic assumptions like Civ3 will be: -- a historical game
-- turn based
-- based on the explore, discover, conquer theme and maybe a few other things. These can be debated and discussed but I'm don't think a long "war" over TBS vs. RTS is very useful. |
Octopus
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 10:32
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DickK: The CIVILIZATIONS thread is to discuss things like which civs to include, who their emperors should be, etc. Government is covered under SOCIAL ENGINEERING (like in SMAC). Ideas changing the basic premise of Civilization, like making it non-turn-based, go in RADICAL IDEAS.And, if all else fails, things (by definition) fit into MISCELLANEOUS. If a discussion becomes too big to handle in that thread, there is a possibility of a new thread starting. [This message has been edited by Octopus (edited 06-24-1999).] |
yin26
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 11:09
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Octopus,I waited for some resolution on unresolved TM spots. Sent a group e-mail. And then waited. Sent another group e-mail or two. Then I waited some more. June 23rd was our start time. It's now June 24th. None of the pairs in question gave me something to work with. I made a very safe call: Work together. If you want a copy of all the E-mails I sent, contact your favorite TM directly. But this raises a point of clarification: If the people in question abosolutely refuse to co-manage, we can still do the 'pick a number' thing. But I think you'll find that having help is in many ways better than taking a thread on its own. ------------------
Yin
Civilization III Wish List Moderator
Questions? Concerns? E-mail Me:
namk26@hotmail.com |
Octopus
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 11:43
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"I think you'll find that having help is in many ways better than taking a thread on its own."I think that if they're anything like me, it will be more work working together than separately. They now need to negotiate roles with each other, make sure they don't step on each other's toes, and in general deal with all the difficulties of cooperation with the incredibly slow communication medium we have. Some poeple can work together in a creative project like this without well defined roles, many people find it difficult. Poorly understood roles and lack of communication between the prospective Thread Managers is a recipe for difficulty. If they can't talk to each other and decide the roles now, why do you believe they can effectively cooperate to run a thread over the long term?
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Victor Galis
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 12:00
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Well, haven't been able to read my e-mail. (Cheap defective Internet-conection.) My guess is I won't have access to my main e-mail account until I return (Sunday night),-Yep, still in Page, Arizona |
Smilo
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 12:02
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Octopus,Are we being negative again ? |
DarkEagle
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 15:27
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Access to their e-mail will probably be important for TMs. I think TMs should probably get a hotmail, rocketmail or other web-based e-mail account just for their TM mail ... or maybe Magaha's staff can setup e-mail accounts at Firaxis for the TMs they can access anywhere from a POP3/SMTP client. |
Hugo Rune
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 15:35
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I really can't start until kd5bjo shows up or posts his e-mail. I have a plan, but it's somewhat hard to decide for another person... |
Q Cubed
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 16:08
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well, I can start ASAP.I'll have everything at the Firaxis, SidGames, and Apolyton covered until 06/24/99, but I wold like that template sent to me soon so I can format it. so, yin, send the template to me, please.
kamsahamnida. |
eNo
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 17:04
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Well I've posted a thread on this forum and a summary. I'm still trying to contact EnochF. |
DickK
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 17:35
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I agree that leaders are part of the "Civilizations" topic -- which is why I'd retitle it. The leaders vs. players vs. civs thing has gotten discussed all over the place because not everyone understands that these things belong together.Must be me, but it seems to me that there are some suggestions/ideas that keep popping up in many topic areas that keep raising the TBS vs. RTS issue (among several other basics) because the idea really assumes something very different is going on underneath it. If there's a groundrule that for instance says Civ3 is TBS, with turns measured in years, map unit scales are abstract, etc, then there's a focus to the discussion and a reason for the thread master to say something is a "radical idea" and belongs there. Otherwise, who says turns in minutes and units representing 1-5 real people is a "radical idea"? I've seen a fair number of really good ideas -- but they're really good for a game other than what _I_ think Civ3 is likely to be at its core. Just tryin' to think of ways to make the topic monitor's job a little easier. |
Octopus
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 21:13
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Let's agree on a standard summary format, please!eNo: I don't want to be offensive, or anything, but you've got to do something about that summary. The font is really, really rough. Also, I doubt there is any way that you'll be able to maintain that level of detail in the summary if there are even a reasonable number of suggestions in your thread. The summary will become too cumbersome too quickly.
[This message has been edited by Octopus (edited 06-24-1999).] |
yin26
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 21:32
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Octopus,I've already sent all the TMs a format to work from. You are already familiar with the basic idea I sent them. I've also told eNo that his summary is very hard to read, so hopefully he'll fix that soon. ------------------
Yin
Civilization III Wish List Moderator
Questions? Concerns? E-mail Me:
namk26@hotmail.com |
DanS
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 21:45
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Yin: Don't we need to number the threads topic titles? I did on mine, so if it isn't what was intended, please change it as you see fit.------------------
This Week's Recommended Reading
Lord of the Rings (Leather Bound) |
Octopus
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 22:18
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Could you guys please keep an eye on the length of thread titles? If they are too long, the name wraps, and makes the forum look really ugly. For example, from the Wish List forum "Summery for MAP/TERRAIN/TERRAFORMING: Co-Managed by EnochF & eNo" puts the "eNo" on the next line for me. (Also, you probably meant "summary", not "summery", but I digress). I don't mean to single anyone out, but titles which are too long are an unpleasantness that can easily be avoided.
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yin26
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 22:39
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I decided against a numbering system since we have such firm control of what threads get posted here, etc. A numbering system would also make the titles longer. Once you want your thread closed, just tell me. Your new thread should just use the same title and you can link people to the locked thread to follow the discussion.Of course, if you guys WANT a numbering system, please let me know and we can bring it up formally with each other. As for changing thread titles, Stephen hasn't given me access to the UBB page, so I can't do that for you. Please e-mail him--and maybe convince him how much easier it would be if I could just do it. I can: Close threads.
Move threads.
Edit any post.
Delete any post.
Delete any thread. I can't: Rename threads (yet ).
Set forum passwords (etc.).
Ban people.
Fix thread problems (broken threads). That's all Stephen's area. Of those things, I really only want to be able to rename threads, since that's going to happen a lot. Well, maybe if you guys keep bugging him enough with "Please change this thread title to this title" he'll get sick of it
and just let me handle it.
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Yin
Civilization III Wish List Moderator
Questions? Concerns? E-mail Me:
namk26@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited 06-24-1999).] |
eNo
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 22:45
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Yeah I know the font is a very small but that's the only way I know to preserve formatting. Point form is the easiest way to maintain and read a summary. Seems like I'll have to convert to paragraphs though, which means less detail as full sentences take more time to write.On the level of detail, well it's being co-hosted so it shouldn't take that long. Plus it's basically and addition instead of editing that as new ideas and arguments pop-up. |
Octopus
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 23:03
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eNo: While making it easy on thread managers can be a side-benefit of a particular summary style, the important part is how usable it is for list contributors. Look at the summary from the point of view of somebody who stumbles across these forums three weeks from now. If the summary is too daunting, they will probably give up and may not submit their idea. The primary use of the summaries at this point is so that people can get "up to speed" about what's already been suggested, so they can jump right in with their own. Being as concise as possible while maintaining the "integrity" of a suggestion is a tough balance, and is the hardest part of being a Thread Manager. It's worth it for the contributors, though.
[This message has been edited by Octopus (edited 06-24-1999).] |
Ecce Homo
b.02-15-99
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posted June 24, 1999 23:06
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Yin, thanks for all your good work! |
yin26
b.02-15-99
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posted June 25, 1999 00:30
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By the way, I opened a Thread Managers' Meeting Room to discuss all our forum issues. I'm open to any input. http://www.firaxis.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000030.html ------------------
Yin
Civilization III Wish List Moderator
Questions? Concerns? E-mail Me:
namk26@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by yin26 (edited 06-25-1999).] |
Kefaed
b.02-15-99
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posted June 25, 1999 01:31
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I'll have my my summary up before the weekend is over. ------------------
~Kefaed, >>>insert irrelevance here<<< |
Victor Galis
b.02-15-99
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posted June 25, 1999 21:34
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I will get to work on Sunday, when I return "home." This UNIX laptop is not exactly capable of much more than posting in this forum.-Now in Kanab, Utah. |
Q Cubed
b.02-15-99
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posted June 26, 1999 01:00
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Summary is approximately 75% complete.It should be complete by Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon. Worst case scenario, on Monday morning. |
Hugo Rune
b.02-15-99
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posted June 26, 1999 16:46
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Summary done! Tadaa!Anyway... eNo, we can live without the formatting. CyberShy, your City Improvements Summary Thread is impossible to view on an 800*600 screen. Please fix... The lines are too long. |
DickK
b.02-15-99
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posted June 26, 1999 17:03
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Lemme try this one more time, then I'll drop it.I still don't see where discussion of victory conditions and options goes. "Ideas changing >the basic premise< of Civilization, like making it non-turn-based, go in RADICAL IDEAS." I agree completely, but just who decided what the basic premise is anyway--and did anyone ever define it? <shrug> Just seems to me that a lot of not very useful arguments have been because that basic premise was clear to both parties but they didn't agree with each other. |
Hugo Rune
b.02-15-99
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posted June 26, 1999 17:12
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I still don't see where discussion of victory conditions and options goes.Any pre-game options (regarding, among other things, Victory Conditions) go into CUSTOMISATION. In-game options go into GRSPHICS/INTERFACE. The Victory Conditions themselves would probably go into separate threads- ECONOMICS/TRADE for economic victory, SCIENCE for Scientific Victory, CITIES (topic not yet posted) or CITY IMPROVEMENTS for building victories. For Space-based victories I think the MISCALLENOUS, the RADICAL IDEAS and the CITY IMPROVEMENTS (possibly the TERRAIN) would cover most options. [This message has been edited by Hugo Rune (edited 06-26-1999).] | |
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