I finished it yesterday (august 1961) and I wish to tell you: it's REAL FUN.
In june 1940, Spain is about 15 techs late compared with the Allies or the Axis, almost no roads, almost no mines, 5th civ on the powergraph, way behind the French and miles away from the Russians, the Axis or the Allies.

If you like building a strong civ, I believe that is needed.
If you enjoy fighting, you can't avoid it (the Russians lost more than 800 units in my game).
Nukes? Yes sir (I tried to avoid nuclear war; nevertheless more than 20 nukes were blown).

Have a try! You'll enjoy it.

(personally I enjoyed it so much that I am now busy playing it as French)

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

I think I have to try it myself, some lonely day... but then, don'T they start in Monarchy? is there a way to change it during the scenario? no. is it fun to play with a huge empire on Monarchy? no.

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 05-02-2001 08:37 AM YES, there is a way. You are allowed to change as soon as you discover (or steal or trade for or receive as a gift) a new government. Do it at once. Next turn is too late.

Not allowed with FW, I tried. I will reinstall 2.42 and try again.

quote: Originally posted by Thranduil on 05-03-2001 04:16 PM . BTW, is Democracy a better idea for this scenario? I suppose not...

BTW here are the latest news on the BBC:
December 1960: All russian objectives have become french (purple color). (french rebels, dark blue, appeared when french troops, purple colored, entered Moscow, but they did not last long). French (democratic, purple colored) troops are now in London and Washington.
One fat city named New York and a few middle size objectives remain foreign.
Victory in april 1961? Our reporter will let you know.

(If you can win as the turks or neutruals it goes without saying that you can win as the allies axis french and russians

"Sverige uber alles!"

Tiny Hall of Fame (today, but I know it won't last! ):
French: La Fayette; april 1961.
Spaniards: La Fayette; august 1961.

Has anyone won with either Turks or Neutral?
I feel compelled to have a try with both

quote: Originally posted by Dissident on 05-11-2001 03:13 AM Are you guys playing the original ww2 scenario that came with the game?.

Here is a short summary of my experience (1 game as Franco, 1 game as DeGaulle):
The main problem is to stay alive and grow your civ during the first 10 years.
Spain stays alive quite easily with help of somewhat careful diplomacy (don't forget to bow before talking to any of the big 3). Then you should be able to fight the French victoriously (but I was unable to avoid being at war with the Axis doing that and was compelled to prepare very quickly a strong surprise attack allowing me to take Berlin and split the Axis empire).
Playing DeGaulle, I never managed to be at peace with the Axis (looks quite reasonable from a historical point of view ).
But the Axis asked for a cease fire any time they took a french city and RESPECTED it (more or less). Then it became some kind of 'compte à rebours' (telling backwards: 5,4,3,2... ), trying to conquer Spain before the Axis had conquered what was left of France.

I suppose that the problem is roughly the same for the Neutral Leader (impossible to make peace with the Axis after they have taken Amsterdam in june 1940, hence you are bound to loose Belgrade 2 years later or so; can you then get strong enough to defend Stockholm or is your small civ condemned to a new start with only Tehran?).
I shall have a serious try from tomorrow on (hope this helps for those who wish to have a try too).

The heady Spanish leader, El Marqui de Vasco, has been chased back to Madrid by the French and their allies , the Axis powers. De Gaulle told the press that El Marqui had deeply offended the French by making diplomatic contact. "Vee had no choice but to declare war on zem, non? Our good friends, zee Germans, who were so kind to take from us zat rats' nest, Paris, will aid us een zees struggle." El Marqui requested assistance from Allied forces, but was declined. "With the entire German navy off the coast of Portugal, our own efforts should be so much easier," declared Churchill. The minister did, however, send a case of brandy to the spaniards as a gesture of goodwill.

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 05-11-2001 03:20 PM Cruel fortune, M. le Marquis - I trust you shall try again ?

Pero si! That scenario should have it set so that the French and Germans can't make peace, let alone ally with one another. Maybe I'll tweak it myself. Apparently all those engineers working the hills struck fear into the heart of europe; They foresaw the bleak future of paella and olives and nipped it in the bud. Grrr...

Its Dec 1959 and its just the Russians and me left (they have over 15000g) I have about 3000g and was able to switch to fundamentalism (2.42 ). I'm just sneak attacking the Russians (pretty much the same front for them as at the start although they've laid down a couple more cities and some were destroyed by the Axis). Over 100 units are flooding over the border and I've taken about 7 cities so far this turn and will probably get about 2-3 more (they have 48 cities I have 73). I expect them to be able to bribe a couple back so I'm going to try and block the routes to them using mech inf/ bomber stacks.

After the axis took Amsterdam on turn 1 they offered a cease-fire and then peace. I was able to ally with all the other civs then. The Axis sneak attacked to take Belgrade a few turns later. The entire world declared war on the Axis and the gifts started to roll in. This was the end of the German challenge for me as they threw units at the Russians and left Stockholm alone. Allies giving a tech every 2 turns and a few hundred gold from all the others (Turks were a bit poorer). Started getting over 400g every other turn from the French . After Howies Scandinavia was mine (c1948/9). Allies sneak attack almost crippled me but luckily they had just built a new city near Oslo for me to take (-> peace).

Took Great Britain and Baghdad and neighbouring cities by 1952. US by 1953.
After taking about 6 Axis cities the germans decided to start building Manhatten project (at a hell of a rate considering how few shields they were generating ). Used some sabotage and taking of cities to stop it being built . Bribed last Turkish city and took a couple of turns to finish the French and Spanish. With Fundamentalism, JSB, AS, MC, Hoover the money's flooding in and production is high.

Should be finished by 1962/3

quote: Originally posted by EOL on 05-14-2001 03:34 PM Taking up the Neutral's challenge. After the axis took Amsterdam on turn 1 they offered a cease-fire and then peace. I was able to ally with all the other civs then. The Axis sneak attacked to take Belgrade a few turns later. The entire world declared war on the Axis and the gifts started to roll in. This was the end of the German challenge for me as they threw units at the Russians and left Stockholm alone. EOL

Tiny Hall of Fame:
Neutral: EOL, oct 1960
French: La Fayette, april 1961
Spaniards: La Fayette, Aug 1961
Turks: ...?, ...?

(it seems that DrFell is bound to win with Neutrals in 1963, and I should manage it around 1975; 'it's a long way to Tiperary...'; therefore I suppose I stop where I am, nice place in front of Istambul,(my mother lived there when she was a young girl), and switch to the Turks).

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 05-15-2001 08:36 AM It is clear that the Neutrals are so weak that lucky results in the field of diplomacy are key to a good start. Ally with all against the Axis is probably the best one can get , and you managed to get it. Congratulations!

Certainly helped having nobody knocking at the gates from the start. MP never getting built probably sped things up a little as well. No need to rush-build SDI or recover from being nuked. Almost every AI city I took had an SDI though, so a nuclear war would have been a bit one-sided .

I only saw about 5-6 Russian Howies after the first turn of the invasion and didn't lose any units to them. I think this was mainly because most of their offensive units had been tramping around on my territory before I cancelled the alliance, so that they were all destroyed when I took every city along the front (except Murmansk) that turn. They had nothing left to counter-attack with .

quote: Originally posted by EOL on 05-15-2001 03:58 PM . They had nothing left to counter-attack with . EOL

Anyway, it seems that you are #1 (of all times and all levels?) to win ww2 as neutral leader and this deserves SPECIAL CONGRATULATIONS.

(Nobody has claimed to have won as French, hence that pleasure is mine, and it is a special pleasure for a frenchman to win ww2 as leader of the French

It's not too hard, really. If you can stay out of war with the russians for at least 10-20 turns, you can build rails to connect your civ and yourself to the axis, and then I send freights into the heart of Germany. With some trade flowing and cities growing, I build tanks and howies and attack the two French cities down there (can't remember the names, it's been some time). By now the Russians have usually declared war, but it's easiest to just let them waste units on Istanbul (coastal fortress) and whichever city is in the east closest to the Russians (walls + SAM). From here it's your choice. Taking the French And Spanish cities of Northern Africa gives you a nice launching pad for an invasion of Spain, and a MUCH larger empire. This has always been my way at it, but I'm sure there are some MUCH more effective ways of doing this.